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mindpunisher
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I have to agree with Danny here. Its a shame kiss you and many on here don't listen to experienced PROFESSIONAL hypnotists there is much to learn from.

Professional hypnotists don't run around bars or accost people in the street they do it for money. They do not have the same personality disorder that installs a need to get attention in public places. Its a job. that's what distinguishes professionals from amatuers in most fields.

Plus they cringe when they see what you are actually doing with hypnosis. Its seriously painful to watch. You are doing stuff that we played around with 20 years ago when we learning at the very start. And you believe what you do is up to date and really cool.

But even when I was playing around with it I did it for money not empty attention. Plus it was a lot better even at the start. Its all a bit sad really. Especially for the art.
bobser
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C'mon MP. You can't really call it 'an art'. I mean, as Danny said, many of those PROFESSIONAL stage hypnotists who are highly experienced at it don't even believe it exists!!! Your not on that bloody viagra again are you?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Its still an art when you do it properly. I suspect a lot of those hypnotists have reasons for "believing" that.

I have never taken viagra what is it bob?

Will it make the snow go away?
Dannydoyle
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Trance state may or may not be an "art" I will give you that. The profession is indeed an art form and should be treated as such. Running about just showing off at a party because you are despirate for attention and have nothing else about you that is interesting is not artful at all.

Doing the show IS AN ART.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Fair enough Danny, but I was only trying to wind up my fellow Scot and seemingly failing miserably. I'm actually quite happy to see it as an art.
But, is it necessarily true that if I'm having wine and cheese with friends and when asked to hypnotize one of them, if I agree am I really: running about, showing off because I'm desperate for attention and possess nothing else about me that is interesting?

Here's the thing; I understand the world of the pro magician extreemely well. It used to be more secretive than the masons. You spent years learning the skills and then became a proud pro. Today you see hobbyists purchasing your secrets for 45 bucks and showing those secrets to their friends. Quite possibly running about at a party and showing off because they're desperate for attention and possibly possess nothing else about themselves that is interesting.

Of course maybe none of the above is entirely true. Maybe it's not their fault they got the stuff for a few bucks and maybe they learn it really well, even better than some of the pros. In my estimation I think I've seen that guy. He's better than some pro magiciansd and he's better than some stage hypnotists. Now that's simply true.

My point? I'm NOT sitting on the fence, I simply have a foot in both camps. If you think or believe something is then it truly IS. And many people are far more entertained by watching impromptu hypnosis performed on their friends than they would be watching a stage show. In fact many of my friends love to see impromptu hypnosis and have told me they acually: 'don't like' stage hypnotists.

Having said that, yes, I do believe that across the board, in general, the stage hypnotist is better trained. However, there are some truly fascinating impromptu hypnotists out there who would simply breeze through a stage show but they simply have no interest in doing so. I've met them. They exist. They're real.

Wouldn't it be great if we all (that's ALL of us) sought out talented hypnotists (stage & impromptu) and reported back here talking of just how wonderful they are?

I don't think we have too many choices other than the above. Simply because any war against the teaching of impromptu/street hypnosis was lost a long time ago. Tell the kids they can't have something and everybody wants it!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Just point me to one of those great impromtu hypnotists Bobser. Youtube me.

I've not seen any yet without exception they are all awful amatuerish and pointless.

There is no war Bobser. Its easy come and tape one of my shows listen to the audience and compare it with your impromtu kids audience.

impromtu IS stage hypnosis with the art removed and just about everything else that makes it professional. Including the safety aspects.

Its junk food.

The reason it exists is quite simple Easy Money and ego gratification for those that punt it.
kissdadookie
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So, to sum it all up, if I had claimed to be a stage hypnotist, Danny wouldn't have tried so hard being insulting to me (after all, Danny did initially think that I was a stage hypnotist with stage hypnosis experience even though I never laid claims to such things). Since I was honest, he becomes a bit of a bully on the grounds that I'm not a stage hypnotist. In the end it really wasn't about the knowledge or the content, it basically boiled down to proving that he had the biggest bat in the room. Good job.

As an aside, it's funny how this thread about hypnosis in general has been single handily turned into a thread about stage hypnosis thanks to Danny. Again, all very pointless and extremely derailed from the original post.
Dannydoyle
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I manage to satisfy all of my performing fantacies by being paid to perform.

The idea that "street hypnosis" or doing it for laughs at a party is on par with stage hypnosis is as absurd as thinking your uncle pulling a quarter from your ear is equivalent to Copperfield. Arrogant as can be. Sure some of your mates may enjoy it more but aside from being anticdotal evidence it may be a function of the shows they have seen. If their friends volunteer for those shows by your own logic they would like them.

I am not as hard core as MP about it. It is what it is. I would never do it personally. Not my style. I don't think it matters much either way in the end. Just don't try to sell me on the idea of it being on par with being on the stage.

Posted: Dec 2, 2010 12:57pm
Ummm it is a stage hypnosis forum. Try to keep your knowledge is obvious bunk and I pointed out multiple times why. You don't understand. That does not make it false it proves your lack of knowledge even further.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kissdadookie
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Where in the forum description do you find that it is a Stage Hypnosis forum? Let me quote:

"Serious discussions on the art and practice of Hypnosis."

Practice of hypnosis. It is you who assumes that it is a stage hypnosis forum. It was also you who kept saying that words have meanings. Again, initially you had thought that I had stage hypnosis experience, you assumed that at one point or another, you believed but wasn't sure. Just because I'm honest about not being a stage hypnotist gives you license to be insulting and quite frankly, a bully? Wow.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2010-12-02 11:08, mindpunisher wrote:
Just point me to one of those great impromtu hypnotists Bobser. Youtube me.


Well let me do better than that. I see myself as a practitioner of impromptu hypnosis, albeit I mainly make my living as both a psychotherapist (using hypnosis) and a pro mentalist.
I've demonstrated hypnosis on live broadcasts and also done stage hypnosis.
My point would be that no stage hypnotist would have done a better job than I did on these jobs and I've been in the company of a couple stage hypnotists doing impromptu hypnosis, and to be perfectly honest, they were weighed, counted and found wanting.
My point? There is no difference in any way shape or form between stage hypnotists and impromptu hypnotists. There is only a difference between good hypnotists and bad hypnotists. Now I absolutely know that YOU know this to be true! It's just that you're p-ssed off with the amount of kids being shown your secrets too easily.
And I'm NOT arguing with you there. But it is what it is. My advice would be that you can't change it from the outside. You should get in there and make it better.
There is no point in ever moaning from the sidelines. We need to get our kit on and step onto the park and get involved in the game.
If something isn't classy then make it classy. If there's no art there then show the people how the art can be placed in there. unless you truly believe it's beyond you and not worth trying. As Harry Callahan says; "a man's got to know his limitations."
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
kissdadookie
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Bravo. Very eloquently put Bobser.
bobser
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On 2010-12-02 15:45, kissdadookie wrote:
Bravo. Very eloquently put Bobser.


Hey, I'm just a guy, asking some other guys, to love him. Smile
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Bobser I do get in ( ive never really been out ) but from different sidelines. When one market gets crowded I move on to another and create better results than what is currently being created. I am usually ahead of my time. I don't want to be a mentalist or stage hypnotist its been done. It doesn't excite me. Stage hypnosis would only be an option to make money but the market isn't quite there yet. At least the opportunties aren't there.

You know what I am up to. And you know the results from the only two clients I have had in that field/market. And that's what gets me motivated because I will/am creating something that isn't going to be done quite like what I am going to.

I am not moaning I am stating the obvious. Youtube me. And because someone performs on stage doesn't make them good. But the VAST majority of street/impromtu what ever you want to call it IS rubbish.

No I want as far away as possible from stage and mentalism as I can get. And you know that's what I am doing. And its been this way for at least 8 or 9 years. Its interesting though that a number of mentalists are now "trying" to follow my footsteps by creating "persuasion programmes" something I started doing very effectively nearly 10 years ago.

Wait and see what I do next year. I'll get a few huge results.
Shane Masters
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As I have followed this thread somewhat, I see opposing arguments from both sides by people I admire for their experience, honesty and knowledge ( Danny, Bobser & Punisher just to name a few ). The following is just my opions and am no way saying anyone is right or wrong. For example, I can not compete with Danny's experience as he has done more proper stage shows in a month or two than I have done in my life.

I too started off just doing things at parties and bars. I didn't go around asking people or flaunting it, per se. It usually started out with me and a friend that is a magician that was known for his craft in those locales. He would bring me up in conversation to someone and we would have fun with the guests.

I will occasionally perform on the spot when asked to do so. I do not feel like a trained seal. It helps keep me brushed up. It helps with my name and recognition. I have also picked up a few paying shows this way. However, sometimes you get that person that starts to demand certain skits or whatnot.....then I feel like a seal and usually say something to deter this. They do not know why we do certain things, nor, do I expect them to. that's my job.

I think starting off doing "street thug hypnosis" actually helped me on stage. If I can put myself into character on spot and do what I need to do, then doing it on stage in a more controlled setting is much easier. This is where I can relate to Bobser.

However, it doesn't stop there. Not only do you have to get people on stage and hypnotize them, you have to be a stage person..... a performer..... a character. Somebody that has everything under control and whose mere persona and charisma demand attention. You need to make it entertaining enough that people want to come back and bring more people with them. You have to be the consumate professional. This is where I see Danny's point of view.

Sometimes, it helps to be a narcisistic, crazy old fool..... that is where I see mindpunishers point. Just kidding punisher, I love reading your posts......printing them out and using them for toilet paper.<---- I made a funny!! -Shane
The Cerebral Assassin
Dannydoyle
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As I said I do not so much look down on street hypnosis. I just say it is not for me. Seriously I could not imagine doing it like that.

Bobser the difference between stage and impromptu is generally the money. I mean how much does one earn just doing things on the spot anyhow? Just curious.

I don't particularly give a rats behind if kids learn the "secrets" or what not. The real secrets are in stage performance. Most of them have nothing to do with trance or how to get into it or any of the bs that everyone likes to banter about. It is simply about being entertaining. If your friends like impromptu hypnosis better, then cool. Does it matter in the end? Who cares?

My problem is when guys get about 2 years in and think they know as much as someone with over 20 years in. Seems to me that just because you read a book or two and have fun at a party or two, that suddenly you know what someone who has literally hypnotised 10's of THOUSANDS of people. It is downright insulting.

Then when he can not manage to figure out the difference in "beleive" this or that and the simple power of positive thinking, or confidence when doing something, it loses even more credability.

That is my main problem with the "STREET HYPNOSIS" crowd. In general they think they know way more than they do.

An exception to the rule? Richard Nongard. Richard actually puts out the SPEEDTRANCE DVD. Richard has an intimate knowledge of hypnosis, does regular stage shows and still does some street hypnosis stuff as well. So it is not so much the medium as the person doing it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2010-12-02 15:31, bobser wrote:
My point? There is no difference in any way shape or form between stage hypnotists and impromptu hypnotists. There is only a difference between good hypnotists and bad hypnotists. Now I absolutely know that YOU know this to be true! It's just that you're p-ssed off with the amount of kids being shown your secrets too easily.


Well, I know that's not directed toward me because I haven't been in on this thread. Further, I'd like MORE people—kids, adults, everyone—to be shown the "secrets" of hypnosis. I would also agree that there is a difference between "good hypnotists and bad hypnotists."

However I strongly disagree with your belief that "There is no difference in any way shape or form between stage hypnotists and impromptu hypnotists." There is an enormous difference. Stage hypnotists are professionals who try to earn money with their profession. Impromptu hypnotists, at best, are showing off. Professional hypnotists study and try to improve their performances. Impromptu hypnotists are one trick ponies. "I can stick your hand to your head!" Big fricken whoop.

I have nothing against impromptu hypnosis. I've trained in it. I can do it. It's good to know. It's a way to overcome challenges. It can even be used for publicity. But impromptu hypnotists only have one purpose: to show off.

Out of every hundred practicing impromptu hypnotists today, how many do you think will be moving on with hypnosis two years from now? On the other hand, how many will be trying to find another way to bully people into obeying them? Impromptu hypnotists are just people who'll be paying the PUA trainers in a few years in order to try and manipulate women.

No, there's a chasm between the nature of stage hypnotists and impromptu hypnotists.

Impromptu hypnosis is fine. I hope more people learn it and there are more fine teachers of it. Bragging that "I'm an impromptu hypnotist," IMO, is like saying I'm an ***hat in training with a lousy self-image.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2010-12-02 18:27, Dannydoyle wrote:

Bobser the difference between stage and impromptu is generally the money. I mean how much does one earn just doing things on the spot anyhow? Just curious.



LOL. fair point. But y'know, while I agree with all you say, I'm also aware of a certain mindset held by many who do impromptu. There are friends of mine who are doctors and lawyers, making more money than most of us can dream of. But they simply cannot compromise their social position by doing stage and giving your grandmother an orgasm as they make uncle Larry think he's sh-t himself.
Soooooo, they have fun doing hypnosis at parties, making no money (as you well know) but everyone has a good time and no one person gets embarrassed, ever.
When they hear someone say they're not as good as a stage hypnotist, they chuckle and shrug their shoulders. Here's why... they're not remotely interested in getting involved in such a crass argument.Honestly, they're not.
Having said that, let's not forget that they've seen many stage hypnotists and are more than aware that many are absolutely sh-te. You now that, you know that, and once again... you know that.
But my main point was taken out of context by Craig. When I say there's no difference between the two I infer to the fact that many impromptu hypnotists do not do stage hypnosis out of choice, but they are extremely capable of doing it. Of course I'm also aware that many stage hypnotists can zap anywhere.
But here's the thing; when a stage hypno says it's actually not just about trance, it's about earning a living through one's professionalism, a half decent street hypnotist can go run courses on it and possibly earn more than a stage hypnotist (certainly here in the UK anyway). Does THAT make it highly professional? Now that he's doing it for good money?
It's 2 in the morning here in the old country, I'm gonna' have a swift Glenmorangie and turn in. G'night.
Bob
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Bobser as long as you want to talk about "you know it and I know it" lets be honest. 99% of street hypnotists are not the type you describe. You know full well it is mostly kids. And don't give me the crap about grandma's orgasams and that nonsense, I don't do that either. NOBODY is embarassed in my show either. So your point is not valid now is it?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
quicknotist
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Shouldn't all you pros be out working this time of year? Smile

I've been pretty busy thanks and some of that work has been roving hypnosis, and shock horror, I'm getting paid for doing it. So there is another side to so-called Street Hypnosis.

To be honest though, I see both sides. I too see very little point in giving it away for free, but you find them in every field from plumbing, through computer support to stand-up comedy:
There's always somebody out there willing to do for nothing what you charge for.

The keen amateurs are here to stay, I guess we just have to put up with it until we can find something else to blame for us not getting more work...

Seasons Greetings All!

Reg
Dannydoyle
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Actually for your sarcastic barb no, I do over 250 shows a year and do not have to wait till Christmas time to be busy. An amature has never ONCE taken a job from me. They can't none of them have the faintest idea how to construct a proper 2 hour show. Which is the difference in doing 6 minutes and walking away and charging $25 a ticket.

Nobody gives away what I charge for. Even if they do it has no impact on me or my show or my life. This is why I don't really care what the street guys do.

Of course you seem to have a dog in this fight as you seem determined to sell stuff to the street hypnosis crowd so your opinion may be skewed.

Fortunately new kids are getting there every year so the market should never go away.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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