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mindpunisher
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Im still waiting for Bobser to show me an extremely capable street hypnotist that can do extremely good shows. Ive not seen one. The "top" guys teaching the street urchins none of them have shown any real cabability. Even in their clips doing supposedly shows.

But that wasn't the point I was making. For some silly reason those running around "zapping" people as bobser would call it think what they are doing is new and highly skilled.

Its not we all did a little bit of that at parties when we were beginners. And just about everything I've seen is a poor version of a stage routine.

Danny may be fortunate in that where he is - his market is still good and seems like its going to stay that way. Here its not so good but I have never blamed street hypnotists for that.

However it will make it less likely to ever make a full comeback if the pubs are full of idiots acosting people.

I could've chosen to sell hypnosis to magi's and kids its not that difficult really. But I chose not to and its something I will never do. I would rather find another market altogether.

I guess wherever there is a market and people are willing to pay someone will sell to them no matter what it is. Sad really but that's just the world.
kissdadookie
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It's not often I agree with MP but his comment, and I'll quote, is a good one:

"Danny may be fortunate in that where he is - his market is still good and seems like its going to stay that way. Here its not so good but I have never blamed street hypnotists for that.

However it will make it less likely to ever make a full comeback if the pubs are full of idiots acosting people."

However, Bobser made a good point about if ones traditional means of business is not working out like it use to, it's most probably time to explore alternate avenues for what you do. Think of it like hamburgers. McDonald's cornered the market and their hamburgers are terrible. What do other restaurants have to do? Find other ways to market their hamburgers to compete.
mindpunisher
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That's exactly what I have done in the past and am in the process of doing now. But I wouldn't do anything to help destroy something I used to love. I don't need to. Any hack can create programmes to sell to street wannabees. Its a sad time for hypnosis.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-12-03 10:47, kissdadookie wrote:
It's not often I agree with MP but his comment, and I'll quote, is a good one:

"Danny may be fortunate in that where he is - his market is still good and seems like its going to stay that way. Here its not so good but I have never blamed street hypnotists for that.

However it will make it less likely to ever make a full comeback if the pubs are full of idiots acosting people."

However, Bobser made a good point about if ones traditional means of business is not working out like it use to, it's most probably time to explore alternate avenues for what you do. Think of it like hamburgers. McDonald's cornered the market and their hamburgers are terrible. What do other restaurants have to do? Find other ways to market their hamburgers to compete.


Sure as soon as business starts to "not work out the way it used too" I will certainly explore new whatever.

See the thing is, a new generation coming along and trying new things is nothing new. It is the same old tired rehashed crap time after time. EVERY time they think they are something new and going to change the world. Few ever really do and THOUSANDS try.

It is great to be young and have ideas and try to be creative, but forgive me if after 20 years I have heard it before and seen it before.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kissdadookie
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You sound quite bitter. The thing is, in your world, the only experts on the subject apparently are stage hypnotists and only stage hypnotists. Everyone else is just irrelevant. That kind of attitude I just don't find to benefit anyone at the end of the day and is quite off the mark as well. We're dealing with hypnosis in general on this thread. It was not specifically focused on stage hypnotism to start with. Hypnosis obviously deals a lot with the nature of how the human mind works, the human mind obviously doesn't take place solely on a stage.
quicknotist
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Danny,
Averaging five shows a week is truly excellent and I applaud you for that.

But not everyone is so lucky, and judging by inquiries I've been getting in recent times, there is an increasing demand for something else. Something in between people being accosted in pubs (as MP put it) and the two hour shows.

So yes, I sell training products and also do live trainings of groups as well as one on one. (I really have had people from as far afield as India travel to NZ to train with me) but I don't want to turn into one of those people who just trains others and never entertains anymore. I love performance and love the art too much for that.

If you read the blurb, hopefully you'll see, not too hidden between the lines, who I'm really targeting. If the amateur accosters have the money and patience to stick with me, then there's a built-in side-benefit for us all that they'll learn how to do it properly, safely and ethically.

In truth, I actually don't care much what other hypnotists think of me, be they the amateur street hypnosis crowd or long-time professionals. It's the clients and the audiences who are important to me.
I'm no amateur or newcomer and can back up everything I teach with real-life, safe, ethical, entertaining and paid examples.

Reg
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-12-03 14:55, kissdadookie wrote:
You sound quite bitter. The thing is, in your world, the only experts on the subject apparently are stage hypnotists and only stage hypnotists. Everyone else is just irrelevant. That kind of attitude I just don't find to benefit anyone at the end of the day and is quite off the mark as well. We're dealing with hypnosis in general on this thread. It was not specifically focused on stage hypnotism to start with. Hypnosis obviously deals a lot with the nature of how the human mind works, the human mind obviously doesn't take place solely on a stage.


Are you missing the point on purpose? Where did I say only stage hypnotists knew everything? I do contend that very few people with only 2 years of experience have much knowledge. I stand by that. BUT I have never once said only stage hypnotists have knowledge. Show me where I said that please.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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>>>>Sure as soon as business starts to "not work out the way it used too" I will certainly explore new whatever.

See the thing is, a new generation coming along and trying new things is nothing new. It is the same old tired rehashed crap time after time. EVERY time they think they are something new and going to change the world. Few ever really do and THOUSANDS try.

It is great to be young and have ideas and try to be creative, but forgive me if after 20 years I have heard it before and seen it before.<<<<

I couldn't agree with Danny anymore hes more or less summed up what I was trying to say. And its when those that have been doing this for five mins learning from those that have been doing it for 8 mins and think they know more than those that have been doing it for decades it gets kind of annoying.

Posted: Dec 3, 2010 5:48pm
Reg

I don't know what is in between. But street will always be attached to a gutter. I just think its sad it has gone this way. And feeding a "new" market is just destroying the real mystery and stripping the art of its dignity.

I don't care what anybody thinks about me. The only thing that matters is the results and level of service I offer. I just couldn't live with myself playing in the street selling products to school kids. So I chose to move to a totally different market.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-12-03 15:59, quicknotist wrote:
Danny,
Averaging five shows a week is truly excellent and I applaud you for that.

But not everyone is so lucky, Reg


LUCKY? Are you kidding me? You think people get to where they are by LUCK?! Oh lord.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2010-12-03 17:23, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-03 14:55, kissdadookie wrote:
You sound quite bitter. The thing is, in your world, the only experts on the subject apparently are stage hypnotists and only stage hypnotists. Everyone else is just irrelevant. That kind of attitude I just don't find to benefit anyone at the end of the day and is quite off the mark as well. We're dealing with hypnosis in general on this thread. It was not specifically focused on stage hypnotism to start with. Hypnosis obviously deals a lot with the nature of how the human mind works, the human mind obviously doesn't take place solely on a stage.


Are you missing the point on purpose? Where did I say only stage hypnotists knew everything? I do contend that very few people with only 2 years of experience have much knowledge. I stand by that. BUT I have never once said only stage hypnotists have knowledge. Show me where I said that please.


The very fact that you've practically accused me of being some kid similar to the kinds that MP refers to whom only hypnotizes folks for kicks at bars immediately after I said that I wasn't nor have I ever claimed to be a stage hypnotist is proof enough. On top of that, the things I talked about, I never ever said that I was speaking about stage hypnotists in general while you just basically assumed that EVERYTHING on this forum is about stage hypnosis speaks volumes on where you feel expertise falls upon in the realm of hypnosis outside of a therapy room. You don't have to blatantly say it since the way you have acted and the things you have previously posted on this thread says it for you. Like you've said numerous times before, words have meanings. Those meanings don't always have to be literal.
Dannydoyle
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We have a language. People have deceided what those words mean. You can not just inturpret them any way you see fit and somehow claim I said something I have never said. That is complete nonsense and actually nothing short of hysterical! The fact that this is a forum dedicated mainly to stage hypnosis does not speak volumes about me in the least sorry.

I stand by the fact that in 2 years you can not amass expert level knowledge in hypnosis.

It is funny you say you have never said nor claimed anything, yet when it comes to me you are perfectly willing to make assumptions right? The very things you say I can not do about you, you then go and apply to me. You are an odd person and dreadfuly uninformed. I hope you cure the uninformed part.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
quicknotist
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OK OK so maybe it was a bad choice of word, I'm not suggesting you have achieved your current status through anything other than ***ed hard work HOWEVER there are many people here on this forum and indeed in any field of entertainment who would consider you very fortunate to be working so frequently.

I know nothing about you or your history Danny, but I'm in my 40s, have worked in the entertainment industry since 1991 and consider myself to be incredibly blessed to be able to earn a living doing something I love, even as an immigrant living in a small country with a small population and sometimes limited and competitive market.

I'll refrain from trying to pay you compliments in future.

Reg

Quote:
On 2010-12-03 17:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-03 15:59, quicknotist wrote:
Danny,
Averaging five shows a week is truly excellent and I applaud you for that.

But not everyone is so lucky, Reg


LUCKY? Are you kidding me? You think people get to where they are by LUCK?! Oh lord.
Dannydoyle
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Telling someone they are "lucky" is NOT a compliment. It completely discounts the fact that they have worked their hind parts off and sacraficed to get what they have.

Fortunate? OH YEA! Definately fortunate to be doing what I do where I do it and how often I have been able to do it yes. But luck is another thing. Luck implies no work. I am constantly amazed at how little a grasp of language hypnotists actually have!

Thank you if it was a compliment. Seriously.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On 2010-12-03 18:55, Dannydoyle wrote:
We have a language. People have deceided what those words mean. You can not just inturpret them any way you see fit and somehow claim I said something I have never said. That is complete nonsense and actually nothing short of hysterical! The fact that this is a forum dedicated mainly to stage hypnosis does not speak volumes about me in the least sorry.

I stand by the fact that in 2 years you can not amass expert level knowledge in hypnosis.

It is funny you say you have never said nor claimed anything, yet when it comes to me you are perfectly willing to make assumptions right? The very things you say I can not do about you, you then go and apply to me. You are an odd person and dreadfuly uninformed. I hope you cure the uninformed part.


Oh my lord. Your implications in the way you have been in regards to me is blatantly obvious. You can't pick and choose when to interpret things and when to take things literally just to suit your own agenda (effectively taking things out of context). Remember how you completely slammed me in regards to the coin transpo when CLEARLY I was not telling folks to TRULY FACTUALLY WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT to believe that the coin that isn't really there to be there. It's appalling the lengths in which you go to try to twist what I try to say around.

As to your comment about how 2 years or what not can not amass an expert level of knowledge or expertise. Let's take that and apply to how your ruler for expertise in hypnosis is largely based on how long a person has been a stage hypnotist. Most folks here who have been around for a solid length of time are quite familiar with professional performers whom get a steady flow of work but are in the end still not that great on the basis of their performances and material. Alas, they still get steady work, 20+ years of solid work even (and no, I'm not implying that person is you, I've used your 20+ years as the example here since you clearly think that ultimately, it is the best measure of a person's expertise). Look, fact of the matter is, as a stage hypnotist you may very well be the Encyclopedia of Britannica of stage hypnosis. The problem with that is that stage hypnosis is just ONE performance realm for hypnosis and it does have it's own ins and outs. Your quite shortsightedness and stereotyping (implied) of entertainment hypnosis outside the realm of the stage as being just a parlour trick folks do in bars and around friends just because they are as interesting as a bar of soap if it wasn't for their little parlour tricks is just very bad taste. It's one thing to be vocal about how folks are doing it wrong but it's another thing to be saying/implying what amounts to being if you're not a professional stage hypnotist with years of experience then you don't have that much experience.

Yes, words have meanings. They have literal meanings. They also have contextual meanings. They also have implications. Just saying.
Dannydoyle
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Oh wait, so YOU can imply things but I am wrong if I do it? Got it.

As for what I use as an "ultimate" way to measure anything again please show me where I said that? See here is what shocks me about you and a complete unwillingness to learn. I said that in 2 years you can not amass an expert level of knowledge. From THAT you extrapolate ALL THE REST OF THE POST! You imply, infer, and simply make up your way to a dreadfuly uninformed conclusion. You tell ME I am shortsighted (or it is implied) and yet you can't see past your own nose! You have absolutely made up (and are wrong about) my position on anything really.

I have said, and say again, you can not get an expert level of knowledge in hypnosis (or pretty much anything really for that matter) in 2 years. The rest is just nonsense that you are trying so hard to attribute to me so you can somehow look right. No biggie, but really show me where I said ANYTHING like what you posted please.

I am saying that in 2 years, you know sort of not so much. For example, how many people have you actually hypnotised in those 2 big years of experience? Seriously. In trance, how many have you gotten under? Heck you are doing them 1 or 2 at a time, so the number is not that huge.

IN ANY art after 2 years you are still a beginner! Why is it shocking that in hypnosis it would follow? Umm did you NOT see where I complimented Richard Nongard as doing the "Speedtrance" DVD and how he does demonstrations like that? Here is the quote from the previous page:

"That is my main problem with the "STREET HYPNOSIS" crowd. In general they think they know way more than they do.

An exception to the rule? Richard Nongard. Richard actually puts out the SPEEDTRANCE DVD. Richard has an intimate knowledge of hypnosis, does regular stage shows and still does some street hypnosis stuff as well. So it is not so much the medium as the person doing it."

Now go ahead again and tell me all those things I "implied" or maybe, just maybe you can back up and admit that you didn't read most of what I said> You just read enough to be angry about and started to post.

Oh as for your coin example, you still don't get it. You said to "believe" the coin is in the hand. Here is the definition of believe for you.

"To have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully."

Now you say you did not mean that. Ok what you meant was to simply ACT as if the coin was in the hand. It is a huge difference my friend, and because you are so angry, you don't even want to imagine that maybe, just maybe instead of getting angry this can be a learning experience that perhaps using more ACCURATE language you can get far better results in the things you are attempting to do. The fact is when I say "words mean things" I am trying to help you, and you just want to be angry. MANY hypnotists (some quite experienced I will say) do not know the value of using accurate language. Some say stupid things like, "you are intensley relaxed". Wow am I now? How can I be such a thing?

So maybe put aside being angry, step up and perhaps learn something. You do not "believe" the coin is there, you ACT AS IF YOU PUT THE COIN THERE! (Which I contend is not a brilliant revelation in the first place. Is not the whole point of magic to do that in the first place? This is basic beginner magic crap. Yet to YOU it is a revelation for the ages! This is what I mean by not being able to amass expert level knowledge in 2 years.)

Posted: Dec 4, 2010 9:53pm
Earl Weaver was right. "It's what you learn once you know everything that counts".
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
quicknotist
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Very true, but a little ironic in your case, don't you think?

Quote:
On 2010-12-04 21:53, Dannydoyle wrote:
Earl Weaver was right. "It's what you learn once you know everything that counts".
mindpunisher
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I have to say - everybody needs a little luck on top of hard work. We all need the breaks. Some people seem to get breaks with little work. Others get breaks after a huge amount of work. Even with a huge amount of work doing the "right" things you don't always get the breaks.

If we are in a place where we are happy it may be down to extremely hard work, taking risks intelligence and talent -- but also getting the breaks.

We all the need the breaks to fall our way.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-12-04 23:03, quicknotist wrote:
Very true, but a little ironic in your case, don't you think?

Quote:
On 2010-12-04 21:53, Dannydoyle wrote:
Earl Weaver was right. "It's what you learn once you know everything that counts".



Yea because I am the one here after 2 years spouting off as if I am an expert. I am the one who does not know the difference in words. Yep show me how it is ironic in my case please. Actually show me what the word "ironic" means.

I am not the one arguing that acting and believing are the same thing. Hmmm, ironic? Naw.

Yea I know all you guys know it all. Good for you. Go out and get all the work while you know it all already. That is the way to do it.

No indeed nobody knows everything. Heck as far as street hypnosis goes I know next to nothing. (Which incidently I have MENTIONED BEFORE so your "irony" comment really is sort of ill informed oops.) I want to know next to nothing about it.

Also, just to maybe unbunch your panties a bit, I have NEVER SAID THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH STREET HYPNOSIS! Go back and READ the words I have written. (Now I don't mean 'read into' the words I have written, but just read them. I am smart enough to speak for myself and don't need you kids to inturpret the words for me. Just read the words for what they are and not what you want to imagine they are.) I simply said that it is not for me, that it does not bother me as much as it does Mindpunisher. Is that the crime of the century to you guys? Are you so narrow minded that the whole world must accept and like what you do?

I have not bashed your street hypnosis stuff in the least. It is possible that you are running together mine and mindpunishers posts.

I have said that it isn't for me. I have said that I don't like to watch it. I have said that an amateure has never taken a job from me. Oh and I did say that someone doing things like that is probably starved for attention.

But on the other hand to tell me that someone who has been doing street hypnosis for 2 years is the same level of someone who has hypnotised literally 10's of thousands of people is a bit misguided. Am I wrong in this assumption? Sure you guys have and use a spellcheck machine. Good for you. But you tell me since you have become the loudest mouth about it, does experience mean anything? Usually the answer given seems to be "ummm no not till I get some".

Now I know why working seems to be all luck to you. It has to be. So naturally you think that everyone else gets work the same way.

I gotta say I am agreeing with mindpunisher. This is little more than an ego stroking fest in here. Sorry to bring reality into it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Not many people have even been doing it for two years since most of "gurus" Couldn't even manage trance properly back then and had to get the answers here. Now they think that they are ahead and what they do is unique and up-to-date.

When in actual fact the only thing that's unique or new is the depths to which hypnosis has Plummeted.
bobser
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LOL. C'mon you two, you're sounding like that two grumpy old guys from The Muppets.
As an analogy, I think impromptu hypnosis is akin to parlour magic? As a pro magician I also do parlour magic. I don't get paid tuppence, but because I like people and get to work with people when I do it... I like it.
I spent years academically studying and practicing psychology and sociology, which took me through psychotherapy and of course hypnotherapy. BUT, because I like people I do impromptu hypnosis. Remember what I said earlier? I like people and I get to work with people when I do it. In fact if I could I'd do this stuff for free, forever.
Incidentally I know tons of pro stage hypnotists who simply love doing impromptu hypnosis which includes street/pub hypnosis.
Therefore this can only mean that there's no such thing as what IT is. But rather who individually WE are.
So, can't you just be you... and leave me alone to be me? That sounds like a plan to me.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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