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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Just got a PM from a very respected long-term member he’s leaving the Café because of all the juvenile bickering. And, according to him (don’t know how he knows, but I won’t refute him), a lot of it’s being done by people who’ve been banned before, but come back with two and three new identities just to have a conversation with their different selves to stir the mud. And of course there are those still on the Café that sympathize with them and help them in their attitudes.
I happened to be on another magic forum today, and caught one of the guys bragging that the Café mods had just caught him and banned him for life - for the 8th time!! I was considering looking into that other forum, but after seeing all the support he got for his junior high “In your face, Steve Brooks!” attitude, I don’t think so!! We had a great little family fun business here, with miniature golf and bumper cars and lots more. Slowly, though, the idiots began hanging out there more and more, and management couldn’t chase them away for one reason or another. Eventually, the problems snowballed and it’s now closed down. I know the moderators are part-time volunteers, and there’s more idiots than there are mods. But I sure wish the rank-and-file Café regulars would man up to telling these people to get a life and go somewhere else - especially when they know who the offending rabble-rouser really is behind that fake log-in! At home, I tell my kids: “That’s not _your_ room - it’s A room in MY house that I let you stay in!” And this isn’t MY web site; Steve Brooks has and continues to provide this. And if my kids can’t respect my house, and the idiots can’t respect this forum, let them go somewhere else and pay for it themselves! Is there any way we can maybe do a periodic sweep through here, like when the hiway patrol blankets a stretch of road for a bit? Maybe Gene could find some scripts that will check all the current users’ IPs for duplicates. Maybe some mods could dedicate one day every week or two to going over their areas with greater scrutiny. And maybe, just maybe, the regulars will respect the Café - and Steve!! - enough to take their banned friends off-forum for their juvenile jaunts, and come back when they can be reasonable. And if their banned friends won’t go, then respect the Café - and Steve!! - enough to report the abuse. The alternative is for everyone who wants a decent place to meet and talk magic to go elsewhere, because the Café s becoming like every place else we left to come here. Which is exactly what seems to be happening. Ed |
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Ed, thank you for your concern and understanding of what happens here. We try very hard to catch the offenders as soon as possible but as you know, there are too many of them.
There's really no way to block these guy systematically. The major offenders use multiple IP addresses. When they post, they start out nice and friendly and sound like one of the boys. Then after awhile, they prove who they are and get caught. With some it's a game to see how long it will take us. With others, it's evident right away. Those members that say they are leaving because of the situation, usually don't really leave. The lurk unseen and after the dust dies down, they post now and then.
Where the magic begins
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KMFrye New user 78 Posts |
There is a feature used in another, non-magic forum I visit, which allows an individual to "stifle" an offensive user. There, the "stifle" button resides next to the "Report Post" button. Once clicked, the offending user's posts are invisible to the individual invoking the "stifle".
There is even a "stifle count" feature that would allow Mods to sort members by number of stifles, and take what action they may. It is not unusual for a person to have two or three, or even ten stifles, but when you can see someone racking up dozens of stifles, their hand is tipped. It is, as they say, just a thought. Keith F. |
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
There are probably dozens of suggestions out there but considering this one, if I understand what you are saying, if you don't like a particular post, you could block the offenders posts from your view. So, suppose that persons post is stifled and someone responds or references it. You won't see the stifled post but would see the response which would make that post senseless. If it only blocks the post from your view, it isn't helping anyone else.
I envision members being stifled simply because they have a difference of opinion. Differences is what makes a conversation and to monitor "stifles" based on a situation like this would be both time consuming and fruitless.
Where the magic begins
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KMFrye New user 78 Posts |
Hi Dave,
You are correct, on the forum mentioned (which is about the size and character of The Magic Café) if I were to stifle your post, only I would be unable to see your posts. This would create the occasional anomalous thread for me as there would be gaps in the posts (on the other hand, not being interested in the posters opinion, not following the thread is no great hardship). There is also an "unstifle" option which can be employed if a reader supposes something relevant is being said. You are correct also when you say that people would use it to settle a difference of opinion, but not as many as you might suppose. Also, it does cut down on flaming. As Ed has observed, the worst offenders seem to be misbehaving on purpose. This would deny them the attention they seem to crave. One would have to balance the "penalty" of a differing opinion with the "benefit" of gaining knowledge. If nothing else, it is an aid to hunting down troublemakers. All kind regards, Keith F. |
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MagicB1S Inner circle Knoxville Tenn. 1039 Posts |
I am not sure how to go about it, I am sure it is difficult to watch everyone however it is getting out of hand (especially in the little darlings section)
"There are Tricks To All Trades.... My Trade is all Tricks"
"An amature practices until he gets it right. A Professional Practices until he can't get it wrong" www.Themagicchest.webs.com bobswislosky@yahoo.com |
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
You know we get multiple PM's saying little darlings is out of control but we get very few bad post reports for us to look at. If the good guys would first stop responding to the bad guys and report their posts instead, we'd have a much better chance of getting it under control.
Where the magic begins
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Asking for reference: which is preferable - a couple dozen "Report Post" actions, or a couple of PMs after the forum users have tried to "reason" with the abusers?
I have no idea which would create the greater workload for you to sort out. Personally, I'd have a tendency to report several posts, and might be wrong simply because they are indeed new the the Café, but are experienced magi and thus have firm opinions based on their years of experience. So if I wind up hitting the Report button on some of these people, the Café risks losing some new members with a wealth of experience and the opinions that come from that. On the other hand, that's exactly the guise a troll puts on, so whilst we try to assume the best and integrate the "newbie", we are feeding a troll the attention he desires. All of which leaves some kind of mess for the mods to clean up, simply because trolls come intending to make a mess. So which action from the average user is most desireable to the mods: PM you or Report Post? Ed |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Ed, if you report the specific post, then the Mods can see exactly where your concern lies and judge for themselves whether its an issue they need to get involved in. If you just send a PM, then they have to sort through the various threads and posts to find the one you're concerned with.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Exactly Skip, thanks for the comment.
Where the magic begins
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Okay, then - I won't be so shy about the report button.
Thanks for clarification. Ed |
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Gene Café Forum Developer Howard City, MI 276 Posts |
There's no reason to be shy ... especially with that avatar!
Somebody kick me off the computer, will ya?
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Steve Brooks Founder / Manager Northern California - United States 3780 Posts |
I have something in the works - that's all I can really say for now.
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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swifthand New user 65 Posts |
Whatever it is, hope it doesn't affect the way people discuss things here. I agree with the others that bickering isn't great, but worse is people being scared of being banned for saying something controversial ...
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Being controversial is not a huge issue, Swift - aside from the clear restrictions of politics, religion, etc. That's just common sense. The primary issue is the endless stream of personal attacks, raw insults, petty set ups, flame wars and so on thrown at people who are genuinely seeking guidance and those who truly care and wish to help. This ridiculous "I'm the best and you don't know crap" mentality has pushed many of the Café's finest out the door or dulled their desire to step forward. Countless thanks to those who volunteer their time and energy to patrol the threads and keep this garbage to a minimum.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Swifthand:
The issue at hand was not a heated discussion or being controversial. It was people who took a sensitive issue with strong opinions on all sides and turned it into a junior-high-level shoving match. The Café doesn't ban people for having strong opinions or being controversial. People are banned because in their discussions they abandon respect for this _free_ (to us) forum and the rules laid out by those who pay the bills and make it work, And they abandon respect for others who simply have strong opinions in a different direction. The "rules" are simple, and are prominently posted in stickies. Likewise the discussion parameters for each forum. Other than that, mutual respect and consideration for others. May you have a long and enjoyable time at the Café! Ed |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I don't know what Steve has planned, but I've been thinking: a modest membership fee (say, $10 to$20 per year) would certainly keep someone from being banned for life eight times. Who's gonna pay money to sign up eight times?
Of course, 46,000 members aren't going to pay a fee, either, so it certainly would make a significant cut in the membership--which would eliminate a lot of idiots. If it didn't--well, for $800,000 per year we could at least afford for the moderators to get some coffee money for their efforts, and Steve could drive a really nice car. Realistically, we might drop down to just a couple of thousand members. But would that be so terribly bad? I know I'd behave better if banning me meant I'd bet out of ten bucks. |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Not so sure - people get kicked out of clubs, which they've paid that much to enter, every night in every city.
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-02-08 06:38, Destiny wrote: Good point. |
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Steve Brooks Founder / Manager Northern California - United States 3780 Posts |
Like I said, changes they are a comin' boys.
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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