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Christopher Rinaldi
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So, do ya folks think a routine using lighters should be performed in front of kids five years and up? I have a few routines I've been working on using lighters, there are lots of gags, comedy byplay and sucker like effects going on. I live in North Adamerica and am not sure if this would be cool or not so I'm scouting out for opinions and whatnots.

:)
Sock Puppet Monkey
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Straw and Matches by Jon Sciezcka

It was the end of summer vacation. Straw had done everything he could think of. He was bored. So he went over to play with someone he had been warned to stay away from. “Let’s plays checkers,” said Straw. “Okay I’m the red ones I get to move first I get two moves and you get one, “ said Matches. “Forget it, “ said Straw. “Let’s play Ping Pong instead.” “Okay I get the good paddle you stand on that side I get to serve first and you have to close one eye,” said Matches. “Never mind,” said Straw. “Maybe we should just watch TV.” “Okay you sit over there on the floor and I’ll sit on the couch and I get the remote and we have to watch my favourite video,” said Matches. “I think I hear my mother calling…I better go,” said Straw.

The moral of the story…don’t play with Matches (or in this case lighters)

Monkey see, monkey do...so I'd say set a good example by not setting a bad example.

SPM
Christopher Rinaldi
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In case you're advocating for the none use of lighters in a kids show... I'm over 18 years of age and aren't the little ones taught the same so therefore just like their adult parents I too can use lighters if I so wish being a grown up and all, we use 'em for lighting dove pans, flash paper and vanishing candles correct? I mean shouldn't there be a logical way to handle the situation without being frightened about future repercussions if a child were to hurt oneself with fire after they saw you perform? How far does being held accountable go if some kid burns down the house and kills grandma in the proccess six months after seeing your show?

I'm being serious here folks....
Bill Palmer
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That is kind of a no-brainer, really. Before you go any further with this, let me ask some obvious questions.

1) Are you charging a fee?

2) Do you have liability insurance?

If you are charging a fee, and you don't have liability insurance, you are not very smart. You can be sued for everything you own. It doesn't even matter if you did anything.

If you do have liability insurance, read your policy. Many insurance policies do not permit the use of fire during a show.

Maybe you don't realize this, but the use of fire IN ANY FORM in front of children is major stupid.

Don't use flash paper, flash string, lighters, matches or any other combustibles in front of children. Even the "don't try this yourself" disclaimer won't protect you if some kid in your audience sets himself on fire and his mother tells the doctor, "Well, this magician...."

So, two things:

1) we DON'T all use fire
2) I'm serious here.
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Christopher Rinaldi
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Okay, I am talking five years and up here, mixed ages and when most of us perform whether it is a show mostly geared towards five years old there is always other older kids and adults if not usually a totally mixed crowd in most events, so lets be serious now...

None of you have lit a dove pan on fire in front of kids using a Lighter?

Or maybe a vanishing candle?

Flash paper or perhaps Torch to Rose?

Most fire codes seem pretty lax when it comes to a magician lighting a candle and a moment or two later it is gone, even fire wallets man some of you sayin you only use it outside 50 feet away from all buildings and people when you perform? conformists!

I have a 6 yr old gradaughter, she thinks I'm cool because I can stick apencil thru my cheek, a pen thru my tongue and a pen thru my arm and can pull dental floss thru my neck. She thinks it's horrible and gross but doesn't hesitate to brag about me to all her friends and insist on me showing them the really gross stuff...and thy wanna see it.

And yes...I do get paid...whats liability insurance hahahahaha, sue me for everything I own, I dare anybody! Hahahahaha...they're gonna get nothing but useless magic tricks without instructions from me. As for my van, well I don't think I could give it away lol!
Payne
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So you really aren't in here looking for advice.
You simply want validation

Image


Go ahead and play with fire in front of children. But first you really should volunteer to perform at a children's hospital in the burn clinic.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Potty the Pirate
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Christopher, I really hope you're not serious. Do your "lighter routines" invlove actually lighting them? If so, then really, forget it. Apart from anything else, I can't imagine many 5-year olds being interested in tricks with lighters. And it's plain dumb to present something using potentially very dangerous articles, which kids under the age of at least 10 should NEVER get anywhere near. I imagine those young kids who DO find the lighter tricks interesting, will thereafter take an active interest in lighters, which they would previously have had NO reason to ever think about.
It's about as stupid an idea as I've ever heard for a kidshow. What on Earth are you thinking?
Potty Smile
Red Shadow
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Check out my review of 'Close-Up magic for Children' by Practical Magic on the review thread. I basically slated the DVD for their use of using a lighter in front of the children on numerous effects.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=111&7

What was worse was the fact that he was lighting the back of a business card (because of friction pen ink), which in turn would make children think, wow - I didn't know ink could do that, lets try it!

Stupid, ridiculous and should never have been put on DVD.
Christopher Rinaldi
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Quote:
On 2010-12-01 05:05, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Christopher, I really hope you're not serious. Do your "lighter routines" invlove actually lighting them? If so, then really, forget it. Apart from anything else, I can't imagine many 5-year olds being interested in tricks with lighters. And it's plain dumb to present something using potentially very dangerous articles, which kids under the age of at least 10 should NEVER get anywhere near. I imagine those young kids who DO find the lighter tricks interesting, will thereafter take an active interest in lighters, which they would previously have had NO reason to ever think about.
It's about as stupid an idea as I've ever heard for a kidshow. What on Earth are you thinking?
Potty Smile


Potty, do you really think kids have never seen a lighter before, Dad lighting a barbeque, or the fireplace in the winter and maybe Mom lighting up a cigarette. Duh, guys... kids see lighters all the time and NO I am not considering actually lightin the lighters but why do you all think there are safety percautions on the lighters themselves, so kiddies can't light them.

This really happened to me and I do not feel resposible at all for the child in question knew better and was taught to never play with fire but chose to not listen to his parents...here's the story, I have a kid, age about 7 years old when it happened who decided to go into my magic room, unlock my trunk and play with a zippo lighter I had that produced a floating flame he proceeded to fill the lighter with fluid the wrong way and when he lit the lighter his whole arm and chest went up in flames...my kid mind you. We had a vsiting nurse come and attend to his injuries for about a month. Was it my fault, nope, he disobeyed and learned a lesson...he never played with fire again. Did I get rid of the lighter, no, are there still lighters in my house, yes. My son Learned His Lesson The Hard Way Folks and some kids just learn no other way.
Christopher Rinaldi
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Quote:
On 2010-12-01 02:06, Payne wrote:
So you really aren't in here looking for advice.
You simply want validation

Image


Go ahead and play with fire in front of children. But first you really should volunteer to perform at a children's hospital in the burn clinic.


Cool picture but no, I am looking for opinions and boy am I getting 'em huh? As for burn victims, even I have done a fundraier for a kid whose house caught on fire and burned down, nearly killed him andit was his parents playing with lighters for they are well known crack heads and accidently burnt their own house down while smoking the rock.
Ryan Price
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I must chime in here. There are a couple children's performers that use fire in my area. One is worse than the other and actually runs his hand through it saying "its magic cold fire".

One child after seeing one of them light flash string and producing a rope from it tried to do the same with wool. Luckily the mom saw this and nothing serious happened. You can see the potential problem with this.
Potty the Pirate
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Quote:
On 2010-12-01 09:50, Christopher Rinaldi wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-01 05:05, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Christopher, I really hope you're not serious. Do your "lighter routines" invlove actually lighting them? If so, then really, forget it. Apart from anything else, I can't imagine many 5-year olds being interested in tricks with lighters. And it's plain dumb to present something using potentially very dangerous articles, which kids under the age of at least 10 should NEVER get anywhere near. I imagine those young kids who DO find the lighter tricks interesting, will thereafter take an active interest in lighters, which they would previously have had NO reason to ever think about.
It's about as stupid an idea as I've ever heard for a kidshow. What on Earth are you thinking?
Potty Smile


Potty, do you really think kids have never seen a lighter before, Dad lighting a barbeque, or the fireplace in the winter and maybe Mom lighting up a cigarette. Duh, guys... kids see lighters all the time and NO I am not considering actually lightin the lighters but why do you all think there are safety percautions on the lighters themselves, so kiddies can't light them.

This really happened to me and I do not feel resposible at all for the child in question knew better and was taught to never play with fire but chose to not listen to his parents...here's the story, I have a kid, age about 7 years old when it happened who decided to go into my magic room, unlock my trunk and play with a zippo lighter I had that produced a floating flame he proceeded to fill the lighter with fluid the wrong way and when he lit the lighter his whole arm and chest went up in flames...my kid mind you. We had a vsiting nurse come and attend to his injuries for about a month. Was it my fault, nope, he disobeyed and learned a lesson...he never played with fire again. Did I get rid of the lighter, no, are there still lighters in my house, yes. My son Learned His Lesson The Hard Way Folks and some kids just learn no other way.

Your kid got seriously burnt when playing with one of your "magic" lighters....but he's learned his lesson, that's OK then? He may have learned his lesson, but seemingly, you didn't. You don't feel in any way responsible for your own child's actions. Obviously, your kid managed to get around the "security features" (never heard of that with a Zippo but still). How would you feel if he'd burnt down your house, and had no chance to escape? What if those flames had spread?
And you now want to play with lighters in front of 5-year olds?
Methinks this HAS to be some kind of sick joke.
:(
Leland
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What would you say had your kid died. Oh well he learned his lesson the hard way.

I used to do a quick trick that involved using a lighter. It seemed everytime I did it there would be a parent telling the kids not to play with fire before I had a chance to making me look bad. I finally just got rid of it all together. I now take a good look at my show and decide if it's dangerous or if kids might get the wrong idea I don't use it.

I'm glad your kid is all right.
Life of Magic!
Red Shadow
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This is not about what you want to do, this is about what the clients want to see.

If you do a trick with a lighter in your show, the kids won't say anything. The parents may say something to you after the show, and occasionally within the show itself. But no parent, what-so-ever would ever book you for their own show. You lose all repeat and referral work and get bad-mouthed around town. If you want repeat work, then playing with fire in front of children is not the thing to do.

I don't care if your actions caused your own child to burn themselves. If that's how you want to teach your children, through near-death experiences, I doubt they will live past puberty. (I'm also surprised you have the ability to type on a keyboard). Your an idiot for not learning from that lesson, and an even bigger idiot if you want other people's children to be hurt as well just to learn the same lesson.

This entire topic is stupid. I'm not beating around the bush with this one. No pleasantries, no being nice about it. Children are being set on fire because of what you are doing so get it into your head...

NO TRICKS WITH FIRE - EVER.
Mary Mowder
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Dear Christopher,

If you are not lighting the lighters, perhaps you could use a similarly shaped object like a roll of life savers.

In the distant past I did use a lighter to light a candle in an act. Times change. If you work for kids, don't use fire.

I think you have a consensus of the opinion other than yours. I know the pain of not being able to do an effect I like because it is inappropriate to the audience but that is part of my job.

- Mary Mowder
Christopher Rinaldi
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Are some of you saying there should be no lighters or matches in any home for fear of little Johnny getting hurt? And yes my son bypassed a lock on my trunk, snooped until he found the lighter in my trunk...I'd say it was his fault, he knew better and did something he was expressly told not to do. Due to HIS actions his punishment was pain and suffering, I did feel bad for him and felt he should not have had to learn his lesson that way but he did, that is life and sometimes it spanks a disobiedant kid hard when they make bad choices for themselves.

Yes, my son is alright he is 20 now and he will never forget his little adventure into my magicroom.

So should I not vanish a bill and make it reappear inside an orange for fear of little Johnny going home and copying that trick as well and cutting his finger off?

There can be so many what-if scenarios should we bury our heads in the sand and hope this fearmongering goes away?

Here's a gasper for some of you, I say that because I can only assume some of you would've caved in....I was setting up at a gig and right before the show and a lady asked me if I could leave out the straitjacket because one member of the audience was a former mental patient who still had issues and he had been restrained while in the mental ward.

I calmly told the lady that the straitjacket was my finale and I was truly sorry for the gentleman but it was staying in the show, she huffed and puffed and walked away in a hizzy.

We live in America and majority rules.

I sense a lot of fear in this forum...

Quote:
On 2010-12-01 14:10, ku7uk3 wrote:

This entire topic is stupid. I'm not beating around the bush with this one. No pleasantries, no being nice about it. Children are being set on fire because of what you are doing so get it into your head...

NO TRICKS WITH FIRE - EVER.

Dude, THAT is the most stupidest thing I've ever read here on the magic Café! I just love this blame shifting society we dwell in now, maybe I should've sued the maker of the magic trick that burned my son and then he could've sued the person that gave him the idea to create the trick and then the other person could sue...

See what I mean, a little fearmongering goes a long way huh.
MagicSanta
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I know a guy who does an entire routine with a bic lighter. All he does is act like he is removing the flame then tossing it back on. It works and proof that non magic magic works. I do a non magic are levitation. Just wiggle your fingers over your other arm which is lying on a table then make magical movements and the arm rises. For those that don't get it it looks cool, for those that do it is funny.
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No fear here Christopher, don't use fire in your act. Case closed. This from an experienced magician who almost caught a pre-school on fire using a candle in his show.

Jim
Potty the Pirate
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Something odd about Christopher's posts - first he asks us if we think he should use lighters in a show for kids as young as 5; then he tells us his own son was seriously burned after playing with one of his magic lighters; and now he's apparently terribly upset because no one agrees he should use them.
If you are being serious, Christopher, which seems highly unlikely, you obviously didn't want an opinion about the matter. It seems you already have your own very strong opinion that it's fine to use the lighters. You haven't listened to the replies you've had. So, why ask the question in the first place?
Seems to me that now, if a child sets fire to something shortly after seeing your show, there is documented evidence that you had been well-advised NOT to present effects with lighters. Even if you don't believe it's your fault (just as you don't believe it was your responsibility to keep lighters out of your own child's grasp), you'd have a hard time convincing a court.
You also said: "And yes...I do get paid...whats liability insurance hahahahaha, sue me for everything I own, I dare anybody! Hahahahaha...they're gonna get nothing but useless magic tricks without instructions from me. As for my van, well I don't think I could give it away lol!" To me, this suggests that after years of performing magic, all you have to show for it is a beaten up van and a bunch of second-hand tricks. Hmmmm....
Christopher Rinaldi
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It seems we have all been cowed in and led down the deathshoot, the PC train of thought has permeated us all. I for one being the crazy bazterd that am even took out my headchopper trick for shows including all ages, not just the litte kiddie shows.

Now to be fair I did not say I would 'light' the lighters, but I did indeed notice the fear of the thought of a mere lighter in front of children and feel it's ludicriss that we have to now live n a society that HAS to think this way. Something as common around the house as a bbq grill or fireplace...

Heres a cool trick but bad for kids I suppose, so don't do it folks! Show a white ligher, make it change color to red, light the red candle, it changes to white, candle vanishes and we are now afraid to perform it in front of kids , especially when they see much worse in video games and on tv. Never once has anybody berate me for lighting a candle and making it vanish an get plenty of repeat gigs...*shakes head*...

Two words...Crazy World..."Theres a fire in my brain, stabbing me...the agony, I can't stand it!"

Posted: Dec 1, 2010 4:17pm
Hey Potty,

Acutally my opinion on the lighter trick itself is none existant, all I've been doing is having fun coming up with hot routines. I purposely wanted YOUR and others opinions. I did say and will say it dfferently this time...I noticed how far this PC thing has gone and that is what is upsetting, I should hope you would all feel the same in those regards.

As for my van, I go thru a lot of vehicles man, my lovey wife has crashed most of 'em, lol! As for everything I own, you are correct, it's just a bunch of used magic but man I got a lot and anything else in this house is my wifes and always will be, it's all hers everything I've ever given to her or of myself brother.

What I find strange is the slight hysteria this may've caused amongst some, when was it that all "Pro" magicians stopped using fire in their shows?
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