The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Trick With Lighters For Kids? (19 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
Jay Ward
View Profile
Veteran user
Flowery Branch, GA
328 Posts

Profile of Jay Ward
I highly recommend not using fire at all, but many kids magicians think that using something like a "hot book" is ok since you can't burn down a house by opening books. If you do decide to use lighters, at least use it as an opportunity to talk to the kids about the importance of not playing with lighters, fire, etc.
TonyB2009
View Profile
Inner circle
5006 Posts

Profile of TonyB2009
I am going to go against what everyone here has said. If you have a good routine using lighters and ti will entertain kids, go ahead and do it.

I have been asked by parents specifically to include fire breathing in my show on occasion. I am not comfortable with this at a house party, but obviously some parents are.

Those of you who are so PC you won't even use a lighter to light a dove pan, you need to do some serious growing up.
MagicSanta
View Profile
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5845 Posts

Profile of MagicSanta
You are not going against me Tony!
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
Chris R. I think the point that has become obfuscated is that your son, somehow deducing you had a lighter in your magic trunk, engaged in a bit of B and E and seriously, albeit non-fatally (thankfully) hurt himself.

Pretty much reinforcing Sock Puppet Monkey's observation that what small children are shown to be cool, they will imitate.

The Line of Slight Hysteria is drawn at whether this is a show aimed at children, or an adult show where children may be present. In the case of a pure kids show, I think you're asking for trouble. If it's an adult show, you are on much firmer ground.

I agree with you that our society has left the throttle open on the P.C. Train, which tends to reinforce the majority position of the responders.

Keith F.

P.S. Personally, I love fire tricks - I just don't perform them in shows for kids.
MoonRazor
View Profile
Special user
778 Posts

Profile of MoonRazor
Don't' use fire ....... unless it's 'magic fire' ........... like from a fire wallet....... for some reason I think this is ok, and I have never had a complaint
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
MoonRazor - You're right. I think it's actually the lighter that's in question. A young child will have difficulty finding a fire wallet, not so a lighter. And let's be honest, we've all played with lighters/matches as young boys, so we know the dangerous draw.
MagicSanta
View Profile
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5845 Posts

Profile of MagicSanta
But a kid will pour gas onto a wallet and set it on fire.....

What is a magic lighter by the way? I've never seen one.

It should be noted that kids are dumb by nature and fire, sticking things into the mouth or ear or nose, chopping effects....none are a real good idea. The difference between fire and chopping though is the kid, through the fog of dumb that is their life, realize fire isn't good.
Christopher Rinaldi
View Profile
Veteran user
348 Posts

Profile of Christopher Rinaldi
Quote:
On 2010-12-01 20:13, KMFrye wrote:
MoonRazor - You're right. I think it's actually the lighter that's in question. A young child will have difficulty finding a fire wallet, not so a lighter. And let's be honest, we've all played with lighters/matches as young boys, so we know the dangerous draw.


But if your quick to jump to possible conclusions then we should never underestimate the ingenuity of a young child, whose to say he doesn't associate a lighter with the wallet and then mistakenly tries to combine the two and ends up burning down the house and killing grandma?

This is what I mean.

After having done a lot of shows in my limited lifetime... and I may not be the biggest magicalsuperstarsupposedknowitall of the known world, however I've already done all of what I've stated and then some (except any actual lighter tricks) and never did one person come up to me after any show and even remotely mention I should not use a lighter to light a candle or a dove pan or anything else, no matter what age group was present. They usually ask question I should hope most else would hear after a gig.

Quote:
On 2010-12-01 16:41, TonyB2009 wrote:
I am going to go against what everyone here has said. If you have a good routine using lighters and ti will entertain kids, go ahead and do it.

I have been asked by parents specifically to include fire breathing in my show on occasion. I am not comfortable with this at a house party, but obviously some parents are.

Those of you who are so PC you won't even use a lighter to light a dove pan, you need to do some serious growing up.


Brilliant somebody not afraid to go against the norm.

This is not what I expected the toic o degenerate into, but sadly what else would one expect from the Magic Café at this point. I guess that is when should have started thinking huh? to e honest the only negativity I've ever heard concerning this subject is from other magicians and NOT parents which end p hiring me for their kids party or family get together after a show they just enjoyed.

Funny thing though... whenever I perform the vanishing candle I can only do it indoors, like in a persons living room if I'm hired for a private party, so should I stop using flahbills now also?

Make up your minds people.

And yes I have performed the Bill 2 Lemon using flashbills indoors and out for five year old and up b-day parties, Fire & Knives oh My!!!
Al Angello
View Profile
Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

Profile of Al Angello
For outdoor parties in the Summer time I always give the mom, and dad the option of seeing me juggle flaming torches, and I can't remember anyone refusing my flaming torch juggling finish.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Christopher Rinaldi
View Profile
Veteran user
348 Posts

Profile of Christopher Rinaldi
Quote:
On 2010-12-01 21:22, Al Angello wrote:
For outdoor parties in the Summer time I always give the mom, and dad the option of seeing me juggle flaming torches, and I can't remember anyone refusing my flaming torch juggling finish.


I'm working on that one myself, just got tah practice more, couple more years I'm sure...*wink*
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
Chris (may I call you Chris?)

You may not realise it, but you are "begging the question". You can conclude that a lighter-equals-a -lighter, but to conclude that a lighter-equals-a-wallet-equals-a-lighter begins to sound like "reduction ad absurdio". Once you make that leap of logic, a wallet can equal a lighter as easily as a rabbit can equal a lighter. All definitions then cease to have meaning. Such an assertion renders all logical debate moot. Surely that isn't your purpose?

There's no jump at all to suggest that a child will see a lighter as anything else but a lighter (unless you're using a lighter that is made to look like a pistol - which is an entirely different Slightly Hysterical Reaction.) Same logic about a wallet - a child will see it as a wallet. He may run around trying to cause wallets to burst aflame, he may even (arguably) contemplate setting one afire, but in the latter case he will still need to deduce and find himself the materials.

So, yes, it is possible that a child will decide to imitate a flame wallet at home. It is less likely, by comparison, to the lighter because the child will still need to associate lighter plus wallet equals flame wallet.

The problem, as you have adroitly divined, is still the lighter.

Kind regards,
Keith F.
Christopher Rinaldi
View Profile
Veteran user
348 Posts

Profile of Christopher Rinaldi
Quote:
On 2010-12-01 21:35, KMFrye wrote:
Chris (may I call you Chris?)

You may not realise it, but you are "begging the question". You can conclude that a lighter-equals-a -lighter, but to conclude that a lighter-equals-a-wallet-equals-a-lighter begins to sound like "reduction ad absurdio". Once you make that leap of logic, a wallet can equal a lighter as easily as a rabbit can equal a lighter. All definitions then cease to have meaning. Such an assertion renders all logical debate moot. Surely that isn't your purpose?

There's no jump at all to suggest that a child will see a lighter as anything else but a lighter (unless you're using a lighter that is made to look like a pistol - which is an entirely different Slightly Hysterical Reaction.) Same logic about a wallet - a child will see it as a wallet. He may run around trying to cause wallets to burst aflame, he may even (arguably) contemplate setting one afire, but in the latter case he will still need to deduce and find himself the materials.

So, yes, it is possible that a child will decide to imitate a flame wallet at home. It is less likely, by comparison, to the lighter because the child will still need to associate lighter plus wallet equals flame wallet.

The problem, as you have adroitly divined, is still the lighter.

Kind regards,
Keith F.


Elegantly put, but fire is fire in any representaion is it not? A rabbit does not equal fire unless it is produced by such I would surmise.

Also the word "Adroit" is cool huh?
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
Al, flaming torches aren't readily available, around the (average) house. This never stopped me from attempting to build one, though the good swift kick from my old granny when she found me out certainly did.

A lighter is just the right size for a child to control - not so a torch.

Keith

Posted: Dec 1, 2010 9:45pm
"Also the word "Adroit" is cool huh?"

If you spell it properly, pretty cool.

Fire IS Fire, absolutely agreed. It's also how it's *perceived* by the kids that must be considered. Aye, there's the rub.

K-
Al Angello
View Profile
Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

Profile of Al Angello
Keith
If you are going to talk about lighters I can't agree with you more, I am disagreing with Christopher even though he is a personal friend of mine.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Christopher Rinaldi
View Profile
Veteran user
348 Posts

Profile of Christopher Rinaldi
....and also ultimatley the parents job to teach and guide, ah, there's the rub. Problem is people (especially modern day parents) don't like to own up if their kid screws up and sadly I know this for a fact it is not debatable.

Quote:
On 2010-12-01 21:48, Al Angello wrote:
Keith
If you are going to talk about lighters I can't agree with you more, I am disagreing with Christopher even though he is a personal friend of mine.

Well Al, how are you gonna use those torches if you do not use a lighter huh...Magic!?

;)
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
Any friend of yours, Al, is okay by me. Smile

I'm sure Chris has a great lighter routine, hence his passion.

K-

Quote:
On 2010-12-01 21:49, Christopher Rinaldi wrote:
....and also ultimatley the parents job to teach and guide, ah, there's the rub. Problem is people (especially modern day parents) don't like to own up if their kid screws up and sadly I know this for a fact it is not debatable.

Agreed. This underscores the cautionary posts you've been receiving. IF something were to go awry, in today's "Don't Blame the Parents" culture, fingers would point to you.

Keith

Edit: with a very good chance of a Nanny-Court verdict against you.
Christopher Rinaldi
View Profile
Veteran user
348 Posts

Profile of Christopher Rinaldi
Yes but it is even far easier to point the finger back in this type of circumstance.
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
Doesn't matter if you're the only one pointing back. And, judging by the culture, that could well be the result.

If nothing else, any legal wrangle would absorb masses of money (doesn't matter if you don't have it - they'll bill you for it and collect out of your wages later) and all manner of time and headache.

It only takes one incident to ruin you. That goes for all of us.

But you're over 18, so in the end, you decide what you'll do.

Regards,
Keith F.

P.S. Your defense would essentially be "That's not the way it should be" (and I agree). The prosecution will demonstrate "That's the way it is..."
Christopher Rinaldi
View Profile
Veteran user
348 Posts

Profile of Christopher Rinaldi
Quote:
On 2010-12-01 21:54, KMFrye wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-01 21:49, Christopher Rinaldi wrote:
....and also ultimatley the parents job to teach and guide, ah, there's the rub. Problem is people (especially modern day parents) don't like to own up if their kid screws up and sadly I know this for a fact it is not debatable.


Agreed. This underscores the cautionary posts you've been receiving. IF something were to go awry, in today's "Don't Blame the Parents" culture, fingers would point to you.

Keith

Edit: with a very good chance of a Nanny-Court verdict against you.


I did indeed win a court case after taking a neighbor to court for subjects having nothing to do with magic but behaviour between kids in the neighborhood and thick headed parents not admiting to their childs fault (or theirs) in the matter. So going to court to dfend what is ultimatley right does not bother me, I find it rather exhilirating at times bu totally a waste of time when it comes down to it.

Ever wonder why there are so many new laws being inacted everyday in this country? The new laws being made are making up for our societies total lack of common sense...as in the the resposibilites of parents, citizens and what-nots.

Texting for example, common sense should dictate it is gnorant to text whle driving yet peopldo it, crash, die and laws have t be created to deter such folly.

I know I know, say the same thing could be said about tricks with lighters huh? However it goes back to teaching our kids the right things, maybe even the performer announces this fact before, in the middle and at the end of his show. I do do this just to make sure the blockheads out there get it and thy come in all shapes, sizes and ages.
KMFrye
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of KMFrye
Chris,

Not knowing the details, I can't comment except to note that, as the Plaintiff, you won. Since you are intimately acquainted with the details, reverse the positions (you being the defendant) and see if it would resemble the firebug-child scenario.

If not, well there you go.

Interesting aside - for the number of lawyers that read these forums, none have weighed in. I'd like to read what the case law on this topic is.

But winning a single case doesn't make you legally bullet-proof. That would be one of the first things any lawyer (good, bad or indifferent) will tell you.

Regards,
Keith
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Trick With Lighters For Kids? (19 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL