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sandsjr Special user 840 Posts |
Marmen, I should address one last thing then you can take the last word.
I'm not saying that a script shouldn't evolve. Of course it will if you are serious about your craft. I think we may be talking semantics. I leave the last word to you. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Here's one thing Marmen is overlooking- while my script did indeed evolve over the years, the first one was written out and memorized until I could do it in my sleep. After performing it a few times, I began to rewrite and tweak it, often based on comments made by participants during the show and adlibs I made when going off script. I went off script all the time to respond to specific situations (and still do). The fact that a script was there, however, is what let me riff according to the circumstances.
And here's what some of the rest of you are missing- Marmen has been around a long time and is a very experienced performer. He's probably been in the business at least as long as I have. He likes to mess with people, though, for his own amusement. But very often there are good bits of wisdom scattered throughout some of his more serious posts. |
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sandsjr Special user 840 Posts |
Quote:
Marmen has been around a long time and is a very experienced performer. He's probably been in the business at least as long as I have. He likes to mess with people, though, for his own amusement. But very often there are good bits of wisdom scattered throughout some of his more serious posts. Though I don't know him, I could sense that Bob. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Oh, I'm sure you know him, or at least know of him.
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
ACTING LESSONS! ACTING LESSONS! What a horrific thought! The worst performers I have ever seen have all had acting lessons. I have never seen a good one yet. As for Derren Brown I always found his television programmes bloody awful and they bored the crap out of me. I remember screaming for the commercials to come on. However, just lately I have seen some footage of him working to live audiences and my opinion of him has gone up quite a bit. He is indeed a showman. However I still cannot approve of him since it has been reported to me that the chap swears on stage. It reminds me of a rather stupid local performer who actually SCRIPTS the swear words into his patter. I hope Derren Brown doesn't do that. If he does then it convinces me that my approach is the correct one. Besides I don't believe for one moment this Brown chap (who owes his fame indirectly to me even though he doesn't realise it) learned his whole 90 minute show (or whatever the length of time is) by rote. If he did then HE should find another line of business.
Now do pay attention, old chap. I keep saying that you SHOULDN'T wing it. Alas it seems that the only way I can convince you of what I am talking about is for you to view this fellow who I guarantee is a better showman than all of you put together and I can guarantee that he never took an acting lesson in his life and I happen to know he didn't learn his patter by rote either. And yet he knows instinctively how to use his voice, emphasise words and manipulate the audience. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC8RJCczChU |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Okay, so I just bought a potato peeler. I expect you to pay for it Marmen as I don't even like potatoes.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
I saw that guy in Union Square years ago. He was a genius. Had an incredibly tight script that he managed to deliver beautifully. I almost bought a potato peeler myself, and I don't cook!
But he is working with an extremely limited palette of actions. Appropriate for a table-hopping magician or shell-game artist perhaps, but utterly inappropriate for a 45-60 minute mentalism stage performance. The obvious "patter" element of his pitch would ultimately become wearing. |
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
Utter fiddlesticks my boy! Have you never seen the waterless cooker demonstrations or the jam auction? 45 minutes to an hour demonstrations! Not a single word learned by rote. And PATTER is the CORRECT way. It is captivating and far more entertaining that some pretentious twit who thinks people actually believe he can read minds when they know perfectly well he can't. The mentalist chatters and chatters and chatters and chatters about pre-inferential cognosis and puts his audience to sleep while the pitchman captivates them so much that they want to give him lots of money. Here is a sterling example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxwujHN0w7s or how about this: http://www.marketpitching.com/#/exhibition/ |
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
There's more to life than money and selling, Marmen. A mentalism performance should be structured like a symphony, moving from snappy, upbeat moments to slower, more reflective moments. Patter merchants can be entertaining in short doses, like a catchy pop song, but mentalism ultimately operates on a more profound level and "patter" simply isn't enough.
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PaulPacific Special user Yes, I used my toes to type all of my 907 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 21, 2014, Marmen wrote: Was that a not-so-subtle dig at a mentalist you know very well? ...and I know even better?
Blessings on thee, little man,
barefoot boy with cheeks of tan... Outward sunshine; inward joy, Blessings on thee, barefoot boy! :-D |
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
I am not sure what Paul is talking about but then I never do. In the meantime I had better warn him that he is going to be $300 less on July 30th and will be forced to go to Windsor but not to see the Queen. He will then have broken his policy of not working in any month that has an "R" in it.
However I see that Pulman is still "twittering on". He just made the most astonishing statement that I have ever heard. MORE TO LIFE THAN MONEY! Dearie me, dearie me. What a silly chap.......................Of course there is more to life than money but I have no idea what you would do with the other one per cent. And SLOWER, MORE REFLECTIVE MOMENTS? And PROFOUND? PROFOUND? Oh, my God! Did you actually say PROFOUND? Alas there is no hope for you my boy. Profound indeed. In other words BORING! You have just described what is completely wrong with most mentalists. You are not there to be "profound" or "reflective". You are there to get people on the edge of their seats or get them laughing or get them to think that you are as good as I am. In other words you are there to ENTERTAIN. You will not do that with your obviously long winded "scripts" and pretentious philosophy. Dearie me no. Study the grafter my boy. That is the way you will learn to be a good mentalist. And if you don't believe me then perhaps you will believe Maurice Fogel, one of the greatest mentalists of all time who said exactly the same thing in the 13 Steps to Mentalism. He advised going down to the street markets which are plentiful in Britain and study the grafters. Watch Joe Ades, watch Mark Lewis, watch that exhibition on market pitching I posted. It is the GRAFTERS you should be studying not the mentalists most of whom are hyper-crap. No wasted words with grafters, no long winded "scripts", no crap about being profound and reflective, no mumbling words, no ums and ahs, no boredom, no talk without action, no pretension. None of that. Just plain showmanship and masters of manipulating the minds of people. Far better judges of character and making people follow instructions and getting to the point quickly than mentalists will ever manage. Now do try to improve yourself. There's a good chap. It appears that you have quite a bit to learn. Never fear though. I shall be happy to give you more lessons if necessary. I am all heart you know. |
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
As for "more to life than selling" that is completely wrong too. You have to sell YOURSELF! It is actually FAR more important than the trick. And you can't sell yourself by being "profound and reflective". As for "slower moments" mentalism is slow enough as it is. Get on with the bloody job! THAT is what the grafters will teach you!
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I've got to admit, Marmen, that when I was a kid my brother and I spend a good deal of our vacation time in Atlantic City watching the jam auctions. We never bought anything, but we learned a lot and put it to good use in the little backyard carnivals and magic shows we started running in our neighborhood. It came to an end, though, when our parents shut us down because of complaints from the parents of kids who spent (or lost) their entire allowances at our "shows." The next year we started doing backyard magic shows and only charged ten cents admission, so there were no more complaints. In fact, when parents started coming to make sure we weren't running any more scams, we started getting booked for parties and community events.
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
Didn't that horrific creature Ford Kross work the jam auction at one time? When I heard that I was almost tempted to respect him for a moment.
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PaulPacific Special user Yes, I used my toes to type all of my 907 Posts |
Marmen I might visit later today.
Blessings on thee, little man,
barefoot boy with cheeks of tan... Outward sunshine; inward joy, Blessings on thee, barefoot boy! :-D |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 22, 2014, Marmen wrote: I don't think he ever worked one, although he may have assisted at one when he was younger. BTW- did you ever meet Ford's cousin, Mal Kross? Great street performer who really knows how to work a crowd. |
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
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On Jul 22, 2014, PaulPacific wrote: Put your shoes on if you do. And stop pinching my bloody tricks! And where is my silver sorcery? I demand you post it here! And no. I am not going to "The Cage" to watch long winded, condescending performers who swear on stage! |
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 22, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: I remember he talked about the Jam Auction and seemed to know quite a bit about it. And I had no idea he had a cousin who was a busker! He did talk about his brother who ran shopping malls though. I believe his brother passed away. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yeah, I met his brother a few times. He was quite an entrepreneur. He used to take out full page ads on the back of tabloids like the National Enquirer to peddle slum merchandise. Once he got hold of a couple of thousand VERY tiny ivory elephant figurines. ((You practically needed a magifying glass to see what they were.) He wrote up a full page ad with a greatly oversized picture of the "legendary ivory elephant good luck charm" and sold tons of them.
They probably only cost him about a penny apiece, but he sold them for a couple of dollars along with a "certificate of authenticity" and a little card that had the "legend" printed on it. The shopping malls came later. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Bob - you mentioning the tiny elephants, it reminds me of something...
my dad was in the royal navy for 20 years, one of the many knicknaks he has is a single coffee bean that's hollowed out, with an ivory stopper - when its opened and tipped out, there's a dozen hand carved elephants inside...he used to have some 8mm footage of the guys carving them as well... he's got some footage of some bonafide gali-gali men doing all kinds of stuff in a bar, too... he said the most amazing piece of artistry he ever saw was in japan, where he bought a heart shaped plate and showed the guy a photo of my mum - and he painted an exact copy of it by hand, in enamels on the plate, in a minute or two...we've still got the items too...
I've asked to be banned
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