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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 09:36, jdmagic357 wrote: And who is Tony? Are you referring to me? If so, you can't even get my name right! Cheers, Todd Robbins |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
He also seems to think he's your competition, and feels somewhat threatened.
Delusional systems always make sense to those who have them.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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handa Inner circle Pittsburgh, PA 1357 Posts |
I was taking the "Tony" reference as a veiled slam.
However, if it is outright ignorance, then that says something too. I'm interested in all responses here, and am wondering how many people have forgotten that unless I'm missing something from here as well as other websites, the original seance of discussion was NOT billed as a theatrical event. A lot of the info discussed applies to our presentations as theatrical performers, but the subject itself is as non-magical as many of the discussions that I have avoided on Penny and that straw man of an area in the Attic that was set up and then taken down some time ago. Chris |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
Chris, one of the "mediums" has a "theatrical" background. I am trying to get more of the story from a friend of a friend of a friend.
Todd, I hope to be in New York early next year and looking forward to the show. Would you explain how you might handle a break down? Posted: Dec 15, 2010 12:34pm Or even better avoid one. |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 12:31, RCP wrote: Where the problems arise is the use of personal loss of someone attending the seance. The easiest way of keeping a seance on the entertainment side of things is to make the contact be with someone fictional or historical. Bill Fienning does this, and it is a very good choice. However, some people will start to remember their dead loved ones even if you don't directly call for this. You have to watch the reactions of the people in your audience. Paul Voodini has a nice touch when he tells the spectators that they have complete control over who comes through, and if someone comes to them that they don't want, they can tell that person to go away. I've never used this, but it sounds like a beautiful bit of suggestion that could keep problems from arising. I directly engage and evoke people's loss in Play Dead with the point being of showing exactly how vulnerable this can make them. I tell them what I am going to do and then do it to them, watching carefully their reactions, and when they get to the point of being affected by the process, I bring them back down by reminding them that this is nothing more than a cruel trick and that it is being done in a theater. My point is to let them see how someone could take advantage of their loss and longing. I would never do this section my act, but this is a theater show and it is a vital part of the theme of the piece. The one time I inadvertently caused someone to fall apart, I went to the person and explained what I was doing and why. I assured this man that his mother was safe inside him and he should never entrust her to a predator. His memories of her are sacred and no one has the right to infringe upon them and use them. I apologized and worked hard to make him understand my purpose. I was fortunate in that he did understand. But I learned a lesson and this experience changed the form and function of what I do onstage. I tell the story of this incident (with this man's permission) and it sets up the theme of what follows and prepares the audience for what they will experience. Quote:
On 2010-12-15 11:48, handa wrote: Perhaps that was some murky reference to Tony Robbins. I have no idea. The lack of grammar and punctuation make those posts incoherent. It does seem that the seance in question was done as a presentation of the paranormal instead of as a theatrical presentation. They do a Victorian seance up in Lily Dale every year and it is presented as the real thing, even though everyone is supposed to be in costume. It is the only time they allow physical phenomenon at Lily Dale (table tipping) since it was banned in 1913 after the leader of the Lily Dale was caught cheating at it by a newspaper reporter. Posted: Dec 15, 2010 1:43pm Though some might find them entertaining, seances like the one that inspired this thread are not entertainment. The same thing goes for people who talk to the dead. I can't imagine anyone presenting spirit communication like that as entertainment. To present it as entertainment you are engaging an audience and asking for their theatrical suspension of disbelief (instead of asking for their belief.) But presenting it as anything else than genuine phenomenon robs it of its purpose and just makes it a cruel prank. If you want to present it as something other than "real" then you have to replace its original purpose with another purpose, which is what we have done in Play Dead. |
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Bill Fienning Special user 635 Posts |
As Todd Robbins mentioned earlier, in my seance, "An Evening with my Late Aunt Elsie," I seek only to demonstrate that Else will come back when I ask her to. She is my aunt, but she died at the age of four, 20 years before I was born. Everyone who knew her is now dead, so on one can attend my seance who has any connection with Elsie.
I make it clear that this is a theatrical event, in other words, a "show." Elsie interacts with spectators involving ONLY herself. She does not answer questions about somebody's Aunt Martha. I am very careful about this since I use both a spirit bell and Tim Wisseman's Spirit Telegraph. Early in the seance, a nasty poltergeist tries to sabotage the seance, but fails.
Bill Fienning
"It's More than Tricks" |
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Wood New user 1 Post |
Greetings, I'm the owner of The Witchery on Galveston Island and the host of the Victorian Seance that you all have been talking about. I just became aware of this thread today and after reading a couple of pages I think I should respond. As you all must know Galveston is a resort town with a full schedule of events year round. Since opening the shop a year and a half ago I have tried to piggyback on top of these events to promote my shop and provide our customers with interesting activities. Last year during the Dickens on the Strand Victorian Festival the idea came to me to take advantage of having the island full of visitors with an interest in all things Victorian. What's more Victorian than a seance?
In addition to being a metaphysical bookstore and supply shop we also host meetups and workshops on a variety of subjects. One such meetup is called Galveston Ghost Hunters that is open to anyone with an interest in the paranormal. I proposed the idea to the group and they were all very excited about it. In fact, the majority of people at both sittings on Saturday were made up of members of this meetup group. I had no interest in trying to research or put together a theatrical seance. It was enough work just to create a Victorian setting. I wanted to have an authentic seance with no gimmicks or actors. I spoke with an agent to find a well known authentic medium. I was shocked at how much money everyone wanted. Chris Fleming told me about the medium I ended up using. She actually came down from Nacogdoches and gave our Ghost Hunters group a presentation on all the gadgets that ghost hunters were using today. She brought down her good friend and introduced him to me. They would work together as a team to conduct the seances. Over the course of the year I've become friends with the two of them and after many conversations I felt confident that they would do a good job. There was some talk on this forum about ethics. I assure you all that nothing was done with malicious intent, though I will admit to inexperience and perhaps poor judgement. The first two sittings were very positive and everyone left having had a good experience. I never considered the possibility of having to deal with some dark energy. I was more concerned that it would be uneventful and boring to the spectators. In hindsight, as soon as we encountered someone claiming ownership of something like this I would immediately close the circle and ask the person to leave. As far as the mention of "Satan," we all come from different spiritual backgrounds and react to things differently. Our medium, Chris, is obviously from a Catholic background and in dealing with this dark energy said several times "get behind me satan!" I don't believe he thought, or expected anyone else to believe, that we were dealing with Satan himself. He was using that as a defense mechanism. I can see how that could scare someone. Admittedly, Chris and Laura had never had an experience like this. Laura shouted for me to do something because she was at a real loss for how to proceed. I am not a medium. I am a Ritual Magician and the obvious route to me was to bring the table back through the group meditation and break the circle, which I instructed her to do and ended the session. I've learned some valuable lessons through this experience and if I decide to do it again will take all of this into account. All of the feedback I've received, even from the last sitting has been positive. Everyone wants to do it again next year. In fact, the only negative feedback I've heard is on this forum from someone who has admittedly called us "competition." If anyone still has something negative to say to me or about my store, please stop by during business hours and I'll be happy to discuss it with you. |
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Eddie Garland Inner circle Hells Kitchen, New York City 4207 Posts |
Dark energy? What the ???
Can we hear more about the dark energy moments? |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 18:27, Wood wrote: Not sure you can have the one without the others. I suppose the naive might believe such things but the cold hard facts are that the sole purpose of the spiritualist movement was to deceive and defraud for economic gain. Some things never change. |
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 20:13, RCP wrote: Really??? Seriously??? Please explain the "some things never change" line RCP -- I'm curious. J
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
Have you become a true believer Jay? You must have forgotten I have your eBook. If one presents a séance as real and defrauds the naive for profit......then "some things never change" Is your last name Fox? Welcome back!
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Great...you have an ebook written about a THEATRICAL experience I created...
FANTASTIC! An actor might cry in the movies countless times -- that doesn't mean they never cry for real in every day life. Some might cold read, or use trickery etc...that doesn't prove that all instances of mediumship, contact, etc etc are fake. Have I "become" a true believer??? That question implies that there was a time when I was naive enough to explain the universe and all of its mysteries away. That however is not the case. RCP -- you do a seance -- do you not? J
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
I believe it is possible to "contact the dead," albeit in a non-séance environment.
As Todd alluded to in a previous posting, we carry with us the memories of our departed loved ones. Whenever we wish to "talk" to them, we can do so by evoking our recollections of them and imagining a subsequent conversation with them. The better we knew them in the past, the more vivid their personalities. Of course, a psychologist might claim we're just accessing a subconscious part of our own minds, but I feel this would be a portion that had been shaped by our encounters with our loved one. Communication with this aspect can lead us to new insights and sometimes useful guidance. I think that many of us do this all the time, occasionally not even being aware we're doing so. And while I've read tarot, runes, and even the auras of people, I would never dare to make the claim that I could make direct contact with a person's dead relative or friend. The séance I offer is obviously theatrical, but that doesn't mean that it's not capable of eliciting strong emotional responses during the presentation.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
I am not a big fan of them and rarely involve myself with them. I don't like taking advantage of the naive, guidable or week minded. I would not mistake a vivid imagination for enlightenment. Nothing wrong with being an entertainer or even entertaining.
Power over others is an addicting drug and quiet profitable! |
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Sorry to rant a bit...
personally I am sick of the snide, condascending, snarky BS that a lot of the members of this site who claim to be performers make towards people who have a different set of beliefs than what they might. It's rude -- and it needs to stop. Quote:
On 2010-12-15 21:50, RCP wrote: That being said -- stop making assumptions about posters in this thread. I've yet to see who was taken advantage of here... Did the seance facilitator bilk these people out of their cash in exchange for contacting their departed loved ones? NO Was the promise of contacting their loved ones made to the people who had adverse effects during the seance? DOUBTFUL Lay off this event you guys -- what happened is horrible sure, it was neither expected or wanted I am sure. Good freaking grief.
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
This is a forum about bizarre magic. (tricks) What one chooses to believe is of no interest to me or I doubt the forum. The history of the spiritualist movement is well known and debunked. The thread was started by an entertainer in the séance business and many other performers have added many helpful ideas to those that might be interested in performing. If you wish explore the occult that is your choice, just the wrong forum. ANYONE claiming to contact the dead is a FRAUD! If you are doing it for profit you are a CROOK!
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Too bad being an *** wasn't illegal...
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seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-14 09:15, magicusb wrote: among a lot of silliness posted here by, ...well, we all know, this is a very good post. So far I have limited seance experience and none of it has involved a dark seance. As with my cold reading I always want to be prepared for these difficult possibilities (I've been reading Carl Rogers and Rollo May); I wonder if you have any resources you could recommend for learning about dealing with situations like these? (if anyone else has any similar recommendations they are welcome as well) Thanks Courtney
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
Wood Wrote:...
In fact, the only negative feedback I've heard is on this forum from someone who has admittedly called us "competition." I was the one who probably made the "competition" remark. It was not meant as a negative comment. I am glad to hear that what I thought about the evening was correct. That it was not intended to go the way it did and that there was not any ill intentions. I do not think of you as "competition" now that I have experienced it first hand. If you would like to see my theatrical seance in January, I will be more than happy to have you as my guest. Send me a message if you want to come. http://www.houstonseance.com Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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jdmagic357 Special user 737 Posts |
And so the bigger picture of presenting your show in a real unrestrained way, has now gone by the wayside?
Interesting.
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
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