The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Thinking of building a Ralph Adams sword basket (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
Thinking of building a Ralph Adams Sword Basket if I can figure out the missing dimentions. Anyone with the book page 50. the top side triangles start at 6 inches and go to ( I think 1 1/5) any better guess. also on the side panel the top is 21 and goes down to (I am guessing 18 1/8 ) any better guesses??
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
Chance
View Profile
Inner circle
1385 Posts

Profile of Chance
It's not the exact measurements you need, just the relative dimensions. You already know what make the effect work, so just get some cardboard, duct tape, and sissors and in an hour or so you'll probably have it all down the the measurements that work for you.
M-Illusion
View Profile
Special user
549 Posts

Profile of M-Illusion
I've built two of these. One out of 1/4" birch and a second from a fiberglass mold I made. Like stated above, the key is to use the dimensions give in the book as a basis and then just make a mock-up, get the exact dimensions nailed down and you'll be ready to go. It's an easy build.
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
Yes I know I can figure out the dimensions that work for me but I just wanted the measurements that are missing from his plan as a starting point.
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Part of what made the appearance of Ralph's sword basket so deceptive was its painted finish. Of the four photos in the OP's 2nd post, #2 & #3 come the closest, but neither one matches the original.

Even George Kimery (Chalet Magic), who used to make a very good RA sword basket, missed a subtlety or two when he was making this prop. He got the criss-cross basket weave design and colors right for the flat surfaces, but he pretty much missed the boat in his treatment of the edges and corners. My hunch is that George patterned his paint design on one of Ralph's earlier props. Ralph greatly improved the prop's deceptiveness after building his first couple of baskets by using a simple, yet effective optical illusion on the edges and corners of the baskets he built in later years.

I know--I purchased an original RA basket, built by Ralph himself, in 1974 and used it until I sold it prior to moving to NYC in 1981.

As an aside, could the prop in photo #4 look any bigger? Smile
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
Yea I thought photo 4 was paint job was bad. I think Ralph used yellow and black paint job
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
My best guess at the 2 missing dimensions.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w221/......ions.jpg
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2010-12-15 22:05, illusionman2 wrote:
Yea I thought photo 4 was paint job was bad. I think Ralph used yellow and black paint job


He might of on some of his baskets, but the basket weave on one he made for me was yellow and brown. The edges, corners, framed opening and lower 1/4 (or so) of the basket were black, though.

One thing he did that I thought was not a good idea was to use high-gloss enamel or spar varnish as a final finishing coat to protect the paint job. Depending on how the lights hit the prop, the reflection could be so great that you couldn't see the paint design and, as a result, the basket wound up looking bigger, not smaller.

So after about a year I stripped the paint off and repainted the basket myself using flat enamel and a flat polyurethane varnish to protect the paint. And while I stuck to the original paint design, not being an artist I laid out the basket weave design with a stencil whereas Ralph painted it by hand.
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
You you have a picture?? I would love to see.
makeupguy
View Profile
Inner circle
1391 Posts

Profile of makeupguy
Here's my only issue with the shape of this, and over 80% of the other sword basket's out there... it's shaped WRONG.

in order for this illusion to be AT ALL deceptive.. not only should the basket look small.. but the swords need to look like they're going THROUGH something!!!!

That means that the swords shouldn't look like they're just running parallel to the sides of the top of the basket. they basket should me more of an upside down pyramid than a upright one with the top cut off...

the ONLY consistently available basket that's even close right now is the Abbott fiberglass one.. and that one could be WAY smaller.. and not made from fiberglass (who thought THAT was a good idea?) With some re-tooling.. the Jim Sommers one is almost close.. but not quite.

The basket in the picture is nearly perfectly shaped..but for 2800.. there are other more effective illusions out there..

Click here to view attached image.
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
The reason I was thinking of the Ralph Adam's Sword Baskek is because it is made up of small panels. I need to clean up my scrap wood pile and thought I would would be a good project. I also thought I could get it to fold flat if I hinged all the joints on the inside(except the edges).
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2010-12-17 10:21, illusionman2 wrote:
You you have a picture?? I would love to see.


I have a Polaroid photo (remember those?) of my basket in a box in my office. I'll see if I can scan it and then figure out how to post it in this thread.
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2010-12-17 14:33, makeupguy wrote:
Here's my only issue with the shape of this, and over 80% of the other sword basket's out there... it's shaped WRONG.

in order for this illusion to be AT ALL deceptive.. not only should the basket look small.. but the swords need to look like they're going THROUGH something!!!!

That means that the swords shouldn't look like they're just running parallel to the sides of the top of the basket. they basket should me more of an upside down pyramid than a upright one with the top cut off...


But that's exactly what makes Ralph's design so deceptive. The "basket", when properly painted, looks quite small. And the swords appear to be coming through quite low in each of the respective panels--take another look at the four photos linked in the OP's original post (even the "ugly" one), and you'll see what I mean.
Magic Researcher
View Profile
Elite user
406 Posts

Profile of Magic Researcher
Illusionman2, why do you obsess over a few dimensions when you should be curling up your assistant to determine the smallest size for your needs? It seems that your priorities are in need of rearrangement.
MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
Quote:
On 2010-12-17 23:11, Magic Researcher wrote:
Illusionman2, why do you obsess over a few dimensions when you should be curling up your assistant to determine the smallest size for your needs? It seems that your priorities are in need of rearrangement.
MR


You could be right but with all those angle cut it is easer (for me) to haveing a starting point and increase or decrease by a inch or two. Also I would like to add the missing dimentions to my book.
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22131 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Andrew Mayne beat you to it at figuring out the angles, he is selling a $300.00 Sword Basket made from plastic material. The design is identical to the referenced Ralph Adams pictures. It is black and can be taken apart for transport.

http://www.andrewmayne.com/shop/special-......yne.html
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2010-12-20 06:54, wmhegbli wrote:
Andrew Mayne beat you to it at figuring out the angles, he is selling a $300.00 Sword Basket made from plastic material. The design is identical to the referenced Ralph Adams pictures. It is black and can be taken apart for transport.

http://www.andrewmayne.com/shop/special-......yne.html


Actually, the design of the Mayne swordbasket is not identical to the RA sword basket, neither in its shape nor in its dimensions. In addition, it doesn't sit on (in, actually) a base, which is a large part of the RA basket's design. Finally, the solid color of the Mayne basket makes for a much less deceptive appearance.

Here's a photo of a Chalet-built RA sword basket. As I mentioned in a previous post, George got pretty much everything right except for how he painted the vertical edges. Note that the swords come out below the "bulge" in the RA basket, and above the bulge in the Mayne basket. That provides for a much better illusion, IMO.

Click here to view attached image.
illusionman2
View Profile
Special user
992 Posts

Profile of illusionman2
Wmhegbli- Andrew's and Ralph's are not the same. The Ralph Adams' also has a rounder appearance because it has many more panels.

Donal - Great looking picture.
Donal Chayce
View Profile
Inner circle
1770 Posts

Profile of Donal Chayce
Quote:
On 2010-12-20 18:06, illusionman2 wrote:
Donal - Great looking picture.


Thanks, but I cannot take credit for it. When I came across that photo on the Magic Auction website a few months ago, I copied and stored it for such a time as this.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Thinking of building a Ralph Adams sword basket (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.14 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL