And the German Army just wanted 'liebenstraum (sp).'

Of course it's not biased. With a title like "Persecution," how could it be? Nevertheless every incident is documented in 42 pages of footnotes. One big case that happened in California was that of Nick Lassonde, a salutatorian invited to give a graduation speech at Amador Valley High School in Pleasanton, California. Though Nick was told he could speak on any subject he chose, the principal demanded that references to Nick's Christian faith be deleted.

"I believed, and sought to state, that success and happiness in this life depend not on material wealth or personal fulfillment, but upon knowing who God is as our Creator and Heavenly Father."

Limbaugh writes, "[H]ow can it reasonably be argued that the religious freedom of other students, even those who violently disagreed with the tenets of Christianity, would be abridged by sitting through a speech endorsing Christianity? It is an absurd stretch to conclude that simply by allowing that speech, the state, through the agency of the school, somehow affirmatively endorsed Christianity and thereby intimidated non-Christians. Yet by disallowing those parts of the speech the school clearly suppressed Nick's right to express himself. And in so doing, it didn't just violate his rights in the abstract. The omitted segments were highly relevant. The thrust of his speech was gutted when he couldn't share his fundamental beliefs."

I encourage you to pick up the book and get an education.

Carrie

[quote]On 2010-12-20 18:49, Carrie Sue wrote:


The poor oppressed Christians. Last I checked there were about 300,000 churches in the U.S. Additionaly, 85% of the population believes in a God or Deity of some sort. And I have had many religious folks knock at my door to "spread the word of God", but I have NEVER ever had a single atheist knock on my door to talk about... uh, lack of belief! I think it's quite disingenuous to play the role of Christian "victim."

That being said, I have no problem with someone praying to themselves or reading their particular holy book, or worshipping whomever/whatever they want.

Ron
PS - You mentioned "radical Islam excepted." What about radical Christianity?

As if the same things happen with both of them with equal regularity.

Sorry, it doesn't happen. Not on your fireless cooker, mister.

Carrie

So you admit there is such a thing as radical Christianity?

I thought we had a civil discussion going and then you had to go and attack my fireless cooker. Way to bring the discussion down, miss!

Ron

Ha! My ex girlfriend went to amador. Couple towns away. I'll check up on it.

Well, I once went to a Carman concert entitled "Radically Saved," so I would gather that my definition of radical is a bit different than yours.

You don't find radical Christians behaving the way radical Muslims behave. Period.

Carrie

No, you just find them bombing clinics, and gunning down doctors, or going on crusades. Yeah, NOTHING like muslims.

To go back a bit, I have no problem with schools having "standards of behavior." What I have a problem with is government forcing children into buildings and infringing on freedom of speech, as well as freedom of religion.

Considering freedom of religion and speech are protected under the same amendment, then shouldn't they both be given the same attention in a public school? If they can censor the speech of students, why not the expression of their religious beliefs? I mean, they are already violating their freedom of assembly.

Glenn,

Could we take a direct flight back to reality here? Take your basic, day to day, run of the mill fundamentalist Christian -- like me. The extreme and violent activities you mentioned are in no way part of our daily life.

Now take your basic, day to day, run of the mill fundamentalist Muslim. The truth is, they have a violence problem, and the evidence is on the news practically every day.

And if you want to get rid of government schools and get back to families and local communities educating your own children, I'm all for it.

Carrie

Those aren't your "day to day, run of the mill fundamentalists muslims".

Those are the extremists! Much like Christian extremists.

Are you an extremist?

I know a lot of Christians who like to clean up others backyards while ignoring their own(I have some in my family).

Wake up and smell the coffee.

I am afraid they are your day to day fundamentalists muslims. Check up and see what makes up a day to day fundamentalist muslim.

Remember again and do not forget this...if you are not a muslim you are and infidel. Now look up and see what muslims feel should be done with ALL infidels.

Really? Are you quite sure about that.

*Catholic extermination camps

Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II
were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years
1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by
Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practising
Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even
concentration camps exclusively for children!

In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a
Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial
number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha
burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to
have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply
stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated
between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the
killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough
to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching,
to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew
about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]

Or how about this

*Rwanda Massacres

In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months
several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a
conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy
actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of
involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even
anybody had openly accused members of the church.

Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not
at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated

"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having
actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain
Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital
Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family
and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is
reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his
cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking
shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many
Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because
to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the
slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda
that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally
butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned
them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.

In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns
are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the
meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them
called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who
had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven
out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun
right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have
directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her
case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of
people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused
of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and
burn their victims alive..." [S2]

Then of course there's all the domestic terrorism

Attempted murder, assault, and threats

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[8] The attempted murders were:[9][10][5]

* August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.

* June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

* December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

* December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.[11]

* October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.

* January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

* September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women's clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.

Arson, bombing, and property crimes

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[8] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[13] More recent incidents have included:[5]

* October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.

* May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000.

* October 1, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.

* June 11, 2001: A bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington on destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages

* July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.

* December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year.

* September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinc.[14]

* April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device.[15]

* May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[16]

* December 6, 2007: Two unidentified persons set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico.[17]

And let's not forget the Lord's Resistance Army, "an outgrowth of the Holy Spirit Movement, a Christian cult that ravaged northern Uganda in the late 1980s".

Acesover is right. Payne is right. Balducci is right. I guess that proves the old quote, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ... But for good people to do evil -- that takes religion."


Ron

Carrie, you are flipping from "radical" to "fundamentalist."

You know what, Glenn, all I know is that I love Jesus, and that He saved me, in every way that a person can be saved.

I have staked my life on following Jesus Christ, and that has made all the difference in my life.

Carrie

Carrie, that's wonderful for you. Please allow others to find their own way.

Someone once said that if God had offered us a thousand ways to get to Him, we would have wanted a thousand and one.

The truth is, there is only one way to get to God, and that is through Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross.

People can't find their own way. Please allow me to point the way.

Carrie

Nearly a billion muslims would disagree with you on that

Carrie, I was referring to when you said "radical" muslims were nothing like "radical" christians, but then flipped to referring to "fundamentalists" like yourself, which is essentially putting two different criteria together with your comparison of mulims and christians.

"Radical" muslims, and "radical" christians both do terrible things. So do many who are considered fundamentalist, but usually no where near as direct as "radicals/extremists." Not saying you do Carrie, but there are fundamentalists who do plenty of terrible things with the way they treat others they do not agree with, like bullying, and trying to legislate restrictions on them.