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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Hydraulics For Suspension (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Kune
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I'm hoping to make a suspension similar to the Super X for my show, but need help.

If possible, I'd like the table the assistant lies on to start up high, and then at the end of the routine, it slowly floats down, to about half its original height (so it needs to stay locked in the up position, until I unlock it).
What would be the best way to achieve this? I assume some form of hydraulics would be best, but I don't know what.

Also I should mention that no motor's needed, since the table will be lifted up manually and locked before the show, and then only needs to go down slowly while support the weight of my assistant once unlocked - any help would be excellent!! Thanks
Eldon
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Virden, IL
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Why reinvent the wheel? Although your not going up and back down it still would probably be easier to use an actuator.

http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php?......4fe03b04
Magic Researcher
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Just use the cylinder on a horizontal bandsaw. They can be special ordered and are set up to do exactly what you want.
MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
hugmagic
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Use a pnuematic air cylinder with a bleed off valve. Kind of like a door closer.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Kune
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Thanks Smile
Darkwing
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Basically you are trying to do the same thing that they do on a grease rack in a gas station. You can do it all hydraulically or use an air / oil system. You would need a cylinder with the rod end on the cylinder on top and the blind end of the piston on the bottom. It really doesn't matter about the rod end because it will never need to see any pressure. All the pressure is on the blind end of the cylinder. The set up would be like this; you would have your power source or pressure line feeding oil to the blind end of the pistion of cylinder with a 2 way spring return valve to control the flow to the piston. You would also need a check valve between the 2 way valve and the port of the cylinder. The check valve will hold the piston in place and not allow gravity and the weight of the object to cause the piston to drift back to the fully retracted position of the piston and rod assembly. You will then tee in another 2 way spring return valve at the same port on the blind end to relieve the oil pressure and let the piston go back to the fully retracted position. Another option is to use a 3 way 2 postion valve on the blind side of the piston.

You will need either a hydraulic power unit to power the cylinder or an air / oil system. There are advantages and trade offs for both. An all hydraulic power unit will give you all the pressure you need (up to 10,000 psi) which depending on your pressure (standard pressure are 500, 1000, 1500, 2500, etc.) can make your cylinder smaller and more compact. The down side is hydraulic power units are expensive, can be noisy, messy, electrical power is needed and need to be well maintained. An air / oil system gives to the smoothness of hydraulics in a very neat, quiet, and smaller package that is powered by shop air pressure. The disadvantage is your cylinder has to be larger because you don't have as much pressure to lift your weight.

Let me know if you have questions concerning hydraulics and I will try to be as much help as I can.

David Williams
Darkwing
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I would agree with Richard on the air cylinder with the exception of one thing; air is a compressable media and you get something call stiction which depending on the speed of your air flow will cause the piston and rod assembly to jump or shudder. Not good in a magic trick. This is where an air / oil system is more desirable. Since oil has very low compressibility, there virtually no stiction and gives you nice smooth movement.

Another issue that has to be addressed is the weight will give you a moment arm that will cause deflection on the cylinder. This is not good and will cause undue wear on the piston and rod assembly, the rod glands and the inner tube of the cylinder. You will need to support the weight with shafting and pillar block bearings.

Richard, I am sorry to have to disagree with you on this one but, I kind of have an advantage since I have designed and sold pneumatic and hydraulic systems for about 15 years.
Kune
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Thanks David - so if there's too much wear on the piston and rod assembly, I assume it wouldn't be safe to use any more? (convince is great, but safety is the most important).
What if I were to support my assistant and take some of the weight during the descent, should that give enough support to reduce the shuddering and prevent any stress on the system?

Would a non-electric pneumatic unit still be small enough to hide behind my leg, and also in the context of a show, what would be the best way to secretly release the valve without anyone noticing? (feel free to PM me if it can't be posted here).

Thanks again David and everyone else who's posted!
hugmagic
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Points all well taken and understood. Sometimes when you shoot from the hip you occasionally hit yourself in the foot.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Dennis Michael
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Hydraulics for suspension?
Shouldn't it be: Hydraulics for Levitations. Suspensions do not need Hydraulics.

Take a look at some of the existing Levitations to give you ideas.

For instance, the water levitation by Copperfield, Henning and others use an elevated platform. Such a platform can hide an "elephant" (figuratively speaking)

The problem with levitations is hiding the base support.

For instance, John Kaplan used a beach scene with sandbase, a surf board (suspension area) and a palm tree, all looking normal to hide the suspension frame.

The actuators above can be used for a lot of creative ideas.

A mirror showing the back of an illusion, the poles in the "chair" levitation, or the chair in a "Chair Levitation.

Some questions to Consider:
Can I use a decorative diorama to conceal the unit? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzf20w8jIVs
Can I use a Platform? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ6xpF6mahA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEGvnKqIXX8
Figure this one out: http://www.www.wackydracky.com/wacky_dracky_ice_storm.wmv
Dennis Michael
Darkwing
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Quote:
On 2010-12-18 07:50, hugmagic wrote:
Points all well taken and understood. Sometimes when you shoot from the hip you occasionally hit yourself in the foot.

Richard


Richard,

Just wanted to let you know my statement was in no way belittling your idea. It was a very good way of addressing an effect.

I have always had the utmost repect for your work and you very expansive knowledge of magic.

I stil owe you a dinner.

David
hugmagic
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No Problem.

BTW, In an old TOPS magazine, there was an idea by Ren Fetzler (sp) idea that made the Super C pratical. A hollow base was made to put the gimmick in. Then a three fold screen went in front of the gimmick. The whole thing looks like a table then.

And you can make the girl appear to rise up on a super X. It is an old Burling HUll idea. Start out behind the girl on your tip toes. Slowly lower down and flex your knees a bit. Now the screen can be removed. Don't laugh. It looks pretty good if done properly.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Kune
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That is to say it starts off as a suspension, and becomes a levitation at the end. The main reason I'd like it is putting all the supports back seems like dead time, while floating down would be a nice kicker ending.

Thanks for the videos - unfortunately a platform isn't an option, so I guess I'll have to figure out something more creative - I think before I decide on anything, I still have some more research ahead of me.
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