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Double O Magic
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So I am hearing all this talk about fancy Sherwood Cups and all these expansive cups, but one question. I am just starting with the whole cups and balls business. I have just purchased full Tarbell's Course and I want to give this old game a try. If you were just starting, which set would you purchase first?

Thank you,

Double O
Pete Biro
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Depends on the routine and setting. For basic learning go for Morrissey's. Then after you know what area you like, size, etc. ask again.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
fortasse
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RNT II produces nice, sturdy set of cups for sub-$100. Ditto Bazar de Magia. Both are copper.

Fortasse
Double O Magic
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Considering I just want a few that I can practice with casually, I am probably going to go with something rather cheap. Copper most likely.

Woudld these suffice for now?

http://www.magicgeek.com/copper-cups-and-balls-2163.html
Bill Palmer
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I would steer clear of this item, unless you have them clarify a few points. The cups are advertised as copper; however, the cups in the photo are brass. These cups are very thin, so they will probably dent very easily.

This said, they will work.

I would not get the combo set.

I would also suggest that you get a copy of the Fun, Inc. booklet about the cups and balls. The information in it is much more specific and useful than the material in Tarbell.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Double O Magic
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Thanks for the information.

Why is it that I should steer away from the Combo Set?

And also, there is actually another set on the website that are made from brass, I am not really understanding why they would advertise that as copper ,but actually made from brass, if they have an item that is made from brass itself.

Thank you.
Dale Houck
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I'll express an opposing view, for what it's worth. If you just purchased the Tarbell set and are getting started, I wouldn't buy ANY set of magic cups yet. I would suggest learning a basic routine and performing it a few times for friends or family with a set of cups of some kind you have in the house. Or, you can buy a set like this from World Market for $10. I picked this set up last summer in Kansas City and have had a great time with them. These are the small espresso cups ant they nest three Mike Rogers baseball style manipulation balls perfectly and take a golf ball size final load with room to spare.

Image


Here's a web link to the same cups: http://www.worldmarket.com/product/index......=3596434

After you get a feel for a beginner's routine, and after experimenting with other "found" cups, you can get an idea of what size of cups you can handle best. I didn't start with cups until the '80's and bought a nice set of Rings 'N Things Monti cups and still think they are great. I have three Sherwood sets and a couple dozen RNT2 sets and they are excellent. If you buy a nice set of cups to begin with and decide you don't like doing the cups and balls, you'll have spent too much on something you won't use. If you buy a cheap set and decide you love the effect, you will also have spent too much money (albeit less) on something you won't use.

That's my two cents worth. Have some fun learning before you decide what direction you want to go for cups for performances.
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Andrew Zuber
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What a great find, Dale! The fact that they nest with three balls is a HUGE bonus!
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Double O Magic
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Quote:
On 2010-12-19 16:19, Dale Houck wrote:
I'll express an opposing view, for what it's worth. If you just purchased the Tarbell set and are getting started, I wouldn't buy ANY set of magic cups yet. I would suggest learning a basic routine and performing it a few times for friends or family with a set of cups of some kind you have in the house. Or, you can buy a set like this from World Market for $10. I picked this set up last summer in Kansas City and have had a great time with them. These are the small espresso cups ant they nest three Mike Rogers baseball style manipulation balls perfectly and take a golf ball size final load with room to spare.

Image


Here's a web link to the same cups: http://www.worldmarket.com/product/index......=3596434

After you get a feel for a beginner's routine, and after experimenting with other "found" cups, you can get an idea of what size of cups you can handle best. I didn't start with cups until the '80's and bought a nice set of Rings 'N Things Monti cups and still think they are great. I have three Sherwood sets and a couple dozen RNT2 sets and they are excellent. If you buy a nice set of cups to begin with and decide you don't like doing the cups and balls, you'll have spent too much on something you won't use. If you buy a cheap set and decide you love the effect, you will also have spent too much money (albeit less) on something you won't use.

That's my two cents worth. Have some fun learning before you decide what direction you want to go for cups for performances.


What a great post! Thanks for the heads up that is really cool! Isn't there also something at IKEA that can be used similarily?
ClayC
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If I were you, I would pick up a set of penguin cups. Those were my first set of cups and they served me well. For 100 bucks they are pretty good quality. I would not use the balls that come with them though. They are copper, not super thick, but do nest and stack well. they are not finished on the inside but I actually prefer it that way, just looks more "authentic" to me. Over all, a very good set of beginners cups.

Clay
Dale Houck
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Quote:
On 2010-12-19 16:45, Double O Magic wrote:

Isn't there also something at IKEA that can be used similarily?


I haven't looked at IKEA, but there probably is. You can look at the collection in the Cups and Balls Museum and find a multitude of found cups. This particular set just seemed perfect for my purposes. Besides, you can also use them for their intended purpose and drink espresso from them.

The book from Fun Inc. that Bill recommended is a great resource for beginners with cups and balls. I just bought two copies to send to my grandchildren who are getting interested in the cups and balls.
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Michael Baker
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I really like Dale's advice here! Found cups teaches you many things, non-reliance on magic dealers being just one of them.

If I may also add, a very fine routine that can be done with almost ANY 3 cups (even those which do not stack) is Charlie Miller's routine. It can be found in Bruce Elliott's "Classic Secrets of Magic". This is a book that should be in all magician's libraries anyway, but particularly for the basics of Cups & Balls work.

It will quickly be seen that this routine is one comprised of several shorter phases. This premise makes it easy to later arrange a sequence of one's own choosing... something that I would recommend before attempting routines that involve more complex sequences.

There is nothing more frustrating than getting part way through a routine in practice (God forbid in performance), and forgetting what comes next, or where the balls are under the cups. (If you can't remember where they really are, how can you expect an audience to comprehend where they are supposed to be?) In the Charlie Miller routine, each phase has a defined plot, such as one ball goes under each of the three cups, and they all appear under a single cup. You know where you begin and where you end, without a lot of confusion.

That's my recommendation.
~michael baker
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Andrew Zuber
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I've been studying the cups and balls for years but will definitely look into the Charlie Miller material - I haven't seen it. Thanks Michael!
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
AndrewJ
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I got a set at one of the usual internet dealers to learn with for about $26. They have been holding their shape really well, but have also acquired an aged look rather quickly.

I have also "performed" brief routines at breakfast for my kids using plastic tumbler-style cups and some colored cotton balls from the craft store. A straight drinking straw serves very well for a wand when going that route. Granted, the balls were a little bit smaller.
Mr. Woolery
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I think your choice of cup depends on what you want to be the ultimate effect on the audience. Lance Burton uses regular coffee cups. At like $2 each from WalMart, that's cheap for cups. Penn and Teller use plastic Solo cups and foil balls. Maybe twenty cents in each performance. Daryl's Fooler Doolers has a routine with a found cup, a dollar bill wadded up for a ball, and a table knife for a wand. If you don't want to look like you are using a magic prop, check out these possibilities.

If you want a nice magic prop, try to handle a few sets if that's an option. If you can't justify the price of a fancy set (I sure can't), learn to work with the limitations of a cheap set. For basics, the cups don't have to be spectacular and wonderful. They only have to cover the balls. Stacking and some of the slide-off moves are bonuses of the modern rounded "magic" cups. Remember that the real magic isn't the cups. The magic is you.

-Patrick
panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-12-19 16:45, Double O Magic wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-12-19 16:19, Dale Houck wrote:
I'll express an opposing view, for what it's worth. If you just purchased the Tarbell set and are getting started, I wouldn't buy ANY set of magic cups yet. I would suggest learning a basic routine and performing it a few times for friends or family with a set of cups of some kind you have in the house. Or, you can buy a set like this from World Market for $10. I picked this set up last summer in Kansas City and have had a great time with them. These are the small espresso cups ant they nest three Mike Rogers baseball style manipulation balls perfectly and take a golf ball size final load with room to spare.

Image


Here's a web link to the same cups: http://www.worldmarket.com/product/index......=3596434

After you get a feel for a beginner's routine, and after experimenting with other "found" cups, you can get an idea of what size of cups you can handle best. I didn't start with cups until the '80's and bought a nice set of Rings 'N Things Monti cups and still think they are great. I have three Sherwood sets and a couple dozen RNT2 sets and they are excellent. If you buy a nice set of cups to begin with and decide you don't like doing the cups and balls, you'll have spent too much on something you won't use. If you buy a cheap set and decide you love the effect, you will also have spent too much money (albeit less) on something you won't use.

That's my two cents worth. Have some fun learning before you decide what direction you want to go for cups for performances.


What a great post! Thanks for the heads up that is really cool! Isn't there also something at IKEA that can be used similarily?


Bill Palmer has the IKEA cups here:

http://69.89.31.132/~cupsandb/museum/showCup.php?id=1105
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sethb
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I second the suggestion about the Bazar DeMagia cups. I have a brass set, which is fairly heavy, has a nice ring when hit with a wand, lets you do all the standard moves easily, and will take a lacrosse ball or pieces of fruit as a final load. It probably runs about $75 now. I also agree with Bill's advice about staying away from a combo set -- it's just one more complication that you don't need at this point. You can always buy a Chop Cup later if you like that sort of thing.

I'd also suggest getting TWO sets of knit balls manufactured by Morrissey Magic in Canada. They use a heavier wool that produces a good thick cover, which prevents the balls from "talking" too much. They come in either 1" or 3/4", whichever fits your hands better. And if you get two sets as suggested, you will always have a spare ball if needed.

The FUN, Inc. booklet is a good inexpensive start. For the complete work, get Michael Ammar's DVD set, "The Complete Cups and Balls." In my opinion, this is miles above anything else on the subject, and will get you going fast. SETH
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ekins
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Another suggestion to get a higher quality set of cups at a lower cost is to watch the sale section here on the Café. A lot of cups are sold there and some at significantly lower prices than their original price.

-Brian
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2010-12-19 13:26, Double O Magic wrote:
So I am hearing all this talk about fancy Sherwood Cups and all these expansive cups, but one question. I am just starting with the whole cups and balls business. I have just purchased full Tarbell's Course and I want to give this old game a try. If you were just starting, which set would you purchase first?

Thank you,

Double O


Before you do anything else, go to http://www.cupsandballsmuseum.com and read the part on the first page that tells you how to get a username and password. Follow those instructions. It won't cost you a cent. There you will find the largest collection of cups and balls in the world.

The cups on that web site range from cups you can pick up at Starbucks for nothing to the most elaborate cups that have ever been manufactured.

You don't need Sherwoods when you start. Howvever, you do need a decent set of cups.

Here's an analogy. If you had a six year old kid who wanted to learn to play the violin, would you buy him a Stradivarius, a reasonably priced beginner's violin that had been set up properly or a $100 fiddle from Sportsman's Guide?
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Pete Biro
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SIDE COMMENT... Charlie Miller's favorite wand? The cardboard tube that comes from the cleaners to hold trousers. Cups below (combo) for sale from me for $40 plus postage.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3UhEgXZ2hzE/Sf......+set.jpg
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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