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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
A currently in circulation half dollar is by definition worth half a dollar, or 50 cents. Half dollars havent been made of silver since 1947.
New half dollars are plenty shiny and what I've always used. So called "silver dollars" used to be about the size of a modern half dollar. Their worth is relative to their age and condition. I have some in a coin collection, but I don't use them for magic. Here's a picture of what I use and recommend. http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/circ......lfDollar
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
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On 2010-12-28 17:37, shamsiel wrote: LOL! One time when I was a teen, it was a slow day at the shop. The owner was doing paper work and I was just standing around playing with some multiplying billiard balls. We had different sizes and I wanted to be “good” with all of them. One set was simply too large, and I kept dropping one as I made “the move”. It was wooden and make a huge “CLACK Clack clack” every time it bounced on the hard tile floor. After about the tenth time, Carl, never looking up from his papers (in his serious voice) said, “If you drop that thing one more time I’m gonna..." (and he said something very rude!) It really scared me at the time, but I’ve never dropped another billiard ball! I also practice where it’s easy to retrieve the things I do drop…
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
I must've drove a poor Junior highschool teacher nuts, as I spent an entire semester of study hall learning to roll a quarter across my knuckles.
Learning that, you DO drop it. A lot I don't remember who the supervising teacher was, but whoever she was, she was a saint.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
I teach music in a small charter school. My approach (I'm creating the music curriculum - which has more to do with small budgets than with my qualifications) is to start kids with three notes. Then we have two tunes with those three notes. Then we add another note when we have a tune that uses it. I try to add no more than one note at a time with the goal of kids being able to play at least a full octave and several tunes. By the time they can do that, almost any tune that isn't technically difficult is totally accessible.
The equivalent in magic is to teach the minimal number of "moves" or sleights (I'm saying that lifting the top of a ball vase is a move, while a DL is a sleight) and a good trick or two that use those moves or sleights. It doesn't take long to learn several sleights if they are all in context. Out of context, it is just so much finger play. I have to agree with the first poster, as well. Books that contain loads of sleights are very useful for what I will call "magic theory" in the same way that several of my books on music are more useful for music theory than for immediate tunes. After a certain point, understanding more of the core is important. But it is not necessary to know every possible variant on a coin palm in order to vanish a quarter. -Patrick |
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
This is part of what I like abt Bill Tarr's book. He teaches sleights but then routines using those sleights.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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djurmann Inner circle thinks time to practice and stop writing 1481 Posts |
I am going to commit Magic Café heresy here but I didn't get on with Bill Tarr's now you see it now you don't at all. Maybe I'll come back to it.
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
That's okay, to each their own I think its a great beginner's book for the right person. Both volumes were very valuable to me.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
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On 2010-12-26 07:21, djurmann wrote: We are all on a different journey with different destinations. Where do you see magic taking you? If your goal is to do some tricks for friends, then forget about sleights; just learn them as you need them. If you see yourself becoming a pro then practice and learn as many sleights as you can to have more tools to work with. However, it is better to have a few sleight that you do flawlessly than to have many sleight that you are only average with. But, it is best of all to know how to entertain and work your audience. You will do much better if your entertainment skills are high and you technical skill are low than you will the other way around. So, on you journey, what do you enjoy? Are you motivated by learning sleights even though you are learning them only for yourself? If so then use this to build those skills but don't forget to perform and grow there as well. Or, are you motivated by performing? If so then use that motivation to build you preforming skills but don't forget to work on the technical stuff too.
Wes
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
I still definitely recommend starting with beginners tricks, often self working tricks not requiring sleights. This way you are out performing, and you are getting reactions. Build on that by introducing tricks with sleights over time.
Then you are not throwing the baby in the deep end of the pool.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
I really think it depends on the person, Scott. And their age. As wellas their level of interest.
With kids just getting their feet wet, absolutely. With someone who already has enough interest to spend the time learning a sleight or two though I think its great to get them started on those. Or at least a few card tricks that use normal cards. Ive run into too m any budding magicians lately who think they have to spend money on every trick they do. that's a danger of a diet of just prop based magic.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Denis Bastible Loyal user Buffalo, New York 293 Posts |
They keep the dealers happy
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scottds80 Special user Victoria, Australia 730 Posts |
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On 2010-12-29 20:09, Cyberqat wrote: Wes also made a great post. I agree with the danger of a "diet of prop based magic". Myself, along with other friends of mine, have spent thousands on magic that collects dust. At the same time, I don't regret it either. It has helped me appreciate the show I have got now. A great way to start off in magic is to learn the cut & restored rope. I learned the version from the DVD "Paul Green's In the trenches". It is very cheap to buy rope, just learn the secret handling and get out there & perform it. Refine it as you practice & perform! You don't need to spend thousands on props such as this, and it has great potential to amaze your audience. You can now focus on your performing personality. Yes, this trick requires some misdirection which is similar to a sleight in itself. I now totally understand why pro's use magic that "packs small & plays big". Let's take Bill Abbott's Smart Ass as an example. It has arguably no sleights (except you need to practice the handling of the card deck) because the gimmicked deck does it for you. That sort of routine is technically easy, but requires good volunteer management and showmanship. And it has FANTASTIC entertainment value! It depends what type of performer you want to be. Do you want to be a manipulation artist like Jeff McBride? Then you will need to learn sleights from the beginning. Get his DVD series on world class manipulation. Google him and watch it on youtube, and ask yourself if you want to do this kind of thing. It is very difficult to get there, and will require hundreds of hours of practice. Or perhaps you want to avoid sleights and have gimmicked based tricks and fry your audiences with things such as: Thumb tip magic Appearing straw/wand/mop etc. Appearing bowling ball from briefcase Neilson's vanishing bottles Packet gimmicked card tricks (Invisible deck, Brainwave, etc) Multiplying bottles Milk Pitcher Pom Pom Pole etc. etc. Also keep in mind that most gimmicked effects have handling issues that are very unique & could be very difficult to perform in some circumstances. Every gimmicked trick comes with its own issues & limitations which you will soon find out when you've wasted $100-$200 on it! They will often sit in your cupboard collecting dust. You can become a powerfully impressive magician without being competent at many sleights in the long term. Perhaps you don't want to be like Jeff McBride! It totally depends on what methods you want use to achieve your illusions, as long as it's entertaining and fun. I'm a part time professional, get great reactions, and use mostly gimmicked stuff which the handling works for my show in nearly any atmosphere - just like a lot of other full time professionals I have seen. If you do want to add a manipulation routine or complicated card effect in your show, by all means start practicing your sleights, even while watching TV.
"Great Scott the Magician", Gippsland
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djurmann Inner circle thinks time to practice and stop writing 1481 Posts |
Interesting posts. Here is why I think sleights, whilst important take second place to tricks. I believe, (say it again brothers and sisters, I BELIEVE!!!) that performance is more important than tricks or sleights. I believe that a good audience response is a reward which propels us to seek that response again through performance.
Now who has a magician goes to a lay audience and goes have you seen my super double lift/control of choice/false count your jaws will drop? We present tricks, spectacles, mind spinning conundrums. In the pursuit of this we DO sleights whilst PERFORMING tricks. There is nothing wrong with sleights, I encourage sleights, I practice sleights and misdirection ALL THE TIME (my wife thank goodness still loves me), but in the end the reason I practice sleights is so that I can perform tricks. the positive (or negative) feedback propels me to practice more. However if you love deft movement for deft movement's sake and you want to perform skilful handling of the cards then why not do XCM? Gimmicks can be great, but my feelings on them are mixed. WOW is a wow effect.....but I don't want the layman going "hey he had a nifty little sleeve, if I had the sleeve I could do that". Get sharky is a real mind blower and you can hand the cards out....I like that in a trick. I bought get sharky, but have no plans to buy Wow. Before spending money on a gimmick I have some criteria. - Can I afford it? - How will I use it? (Rorrison's Smoke went onto the scrap heap for this one despite a LOT of internal "I want it, gimme!" - How often will I use it and does it store? - Will it make the spectator think WOW! or will they think I wonder what kind of gimmick he used to achieve that? (Mr Evan's rising card rests in the drawer because of this one) Just some thoughts. Danny |
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domf New user Canada 67 Posts |
Gary Oullet said that you only need 3 or 4 basic sleights and then you are ready. Everything seems possible with 3-4 basic sleights.
Best Dom |
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Jaxon Inner circle Kalamazoo, Mi. 2537 Posts |
Well, I agree with the topic of this discussion. But, I'd also add this.
Learn the basic sleights before all else. What do I mean by basic? Well, to some degree it depends on the kind of material you perform. But just to throw out some that I view as "Basic". CARDS: double lift, top change, top palm, Break, Elmsley Count, etc... COINS AND SMALL OBJECT: palming, passes, etc... I added the "etc..." because the list can go on. But my point is that with these "Basic" moves you'll be able to get out of trouble when the tricks you are doing don't go as planned. It's those basic sleights that will give you the most options in those situations. But beyond that I agree. It's more important to learn some "tricks" and go out and perform them then how many sleights you know. Because you'll only learn the most important part (Presentation) when you're out there performing them. Ron Jaxon |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
As I view the priginal post as a request for the best way to become a competent magician I would suggest that you should not do "tricks" at all, and certainly never demonstrate sleights just to show off skill. Work on doing "magic effects" that includes patter, consideration of audience, and concern over appropriateness and "what comes next." If you do not learn these principles of routining early you may be condemned to only performing "tricks" forever.
"tricks" are what comes in the box -- you want more than that. Both Sleights and Tricks are but tools for a magciian -- not the identity.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Unfortunately, many of the tricks are on the magician who keeps buying the same effect over and over under a new name.
Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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smileymcsmiley New user 70 Posts |
This has given me food for thought. I have been just solidly practising double lifts and palming for a while and have let my practice of the tricks themselves slip. I think I will be going back to the tricks themselves and try and have a more balanced look at what I am doing.
Just to add my to pennys worth on gimmicks and such as a beginner I really don't like them because everything I do is in front of friends and family and I like being able to grab a deck and just go. Much better than having to lug gimmicks around in yer pockets |
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halestorm New user Los Angeles 64 Posts |
From personal experience... I always wanted to be a card magician. About 10 years ago I finally acted on that, went to a local magic shop and said I was interested in learning to be a card magician. He said what I needed was Card College. So, I bought Vol 1 from him. With excitement I dove into the first page with deck in hand. The moves and handling weren't natural for me and after days of this and never getting to learning any card trick, I skipped ahead, looking for one. I wasn't able to do them of course, because they all relied on knowing the sleights and basic handling that I had skipped over. I gave up.
It wasn't until just a few years ago, when I had significant motivation, that I got back into it (the motivation was that my daughter expected her daddy to be magic). So, only properly motivated was I able to focus on the notes, err, sleights. BUT, I needed quicker evidence of progress (both for me and for my daughter) so I bought a couple of other books and DVDs and learned a self working tricks. While practicing those I continued my Card College studies. As I've progressed I've left the self-working effects by the wayside. Having the proper tools I can now see how to put them together to do different things of my own, and understand more complicated effects when I read about them. I think like with music it is probably different for different people but for me, knowing (and practicing) the basic manipulations is helpful, but only after being able to bang out a few crude tunes along the way. --- NB. As an aside, despite a few attempts I never picked up guitar for much the same reason as with cards -- only there was never a proper motivator to force me to stick it out like there was with magic. On the other hand, with the one instrument I do know (bagpipes) my instructor had me learning tunes almost from the beginning. ---
David Hale
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thatmichaelguy New user 67 Posts |
I have to say that I couldn't agree more with funsway. It's too easy to often to jump into the "look at this nifty thing I can do" boat. Audiences don't necessarily want to be shown a trick. They want to have a mystifying experience, and the tricks and the sleights used to accomplish them are subordinate to that.
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