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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Parking at the Venue and being treated poorly
I have a clause in my contract that says parking must be made available. Loading / Unloading and then parking elsewhere is not an option as I have large electrical equipment involved. Off course, rarely do the clients read this far into the contract but on occasion they have and have reserved me a parking space. But with winter in progress, parking is extra important as icy pavements can cause serious injury. Snow will wet and 'muddy' your trousers and your fingers can freeze and go numb in just getting from the car to the venue. Many shows I have are in a city centre and the hotels claim that a local 'pay-and-display' car-park is the one I should use. However it costs £10 per 2-hours which is ridiculous. But who should pay for that? Its in my contract that any car-parking fees are not included in the quote. Once I did get the hotel to refund me my car-parking because it was ridiculous where they got me to park etc. But usually I just absorb the costs because its too much work trying to explain it to them. I suppose if I have a question, its about contracts and clauses with car-parking. Do you have one written in and what would you do if there weren't any available? One of the recent shows at a school really annoyed me. I arrived and the school car-park was full. I was nice, stop outside the main door and unload. One of the dinner ladies decides to move her car so I get back in, start my engine and wait for her to move. She drives out and I go to drive into the space. I've indicated and am about to turn when another car comes into the car-park. I pause to let the car go past so that my tail end doesn't swing out and hit her, and she immediately turns and goes into the car-park space I am literally heading into. I lower the window and say 'What do you think your doing - I'm going in there'. She huffs and walks off. I park my car directly behind her and watch the woman go into the school. I immediately follow her and ask the receptionist who that was. I am told its one of the teachers. I tell her what just happened and the teacher returns from behind the corner where she was hiding saying 'I'm a teacher, so I get the space. get over it'. I'm about to leave. I ask myself why bother doing a show for anybody that treats not just their guests but human beings like that. She had no idea who I was and my contract gives me complete cause to just walk away from the show. The teacher walks off and the receptionist apologised for her behaviour (sort-off) and allows me to park in the disabled bay for the duration of the show. I reluctantly stay. Has anybody else been treated so badly by the client that they either left or were seriously thinking about leaving? |
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keeblem Inner circle Essex, UK 1167 Posts |
Well, I've never been treated like that but the whole parking issue can be a bit of a problem. I too put it into my confirmation letter about reserving parking space but I believe in all the shows I've done it's only been done once. (Of course a lot of the time there are no problems with parking). It does annoy me however when the booker knows there is a parking problem but doesn't bother to say or do anything about it. I think it's just a case of "let him turn up and he'll have to sort it out himself".
There's no point in saying anything though or getting angry. It doesn't do your professional image any good and they're not going to do anything about it anyway... Mark |
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kimmo Inner circle Sheffield 1193 Posts |
I'd have parked on the road and given the teacher my space. Get over yourself Steve.
Although I must admit - the idea of you getting angry while wearing that elf costume of yours is quite hilarious.
VISIT MY ONLINE STORE!: www.kimmomagicshop.com
NEW LECTURE NOTES - SHOW US YOUR TRIX NOW AVAILABLE AS AN INSTANT DIGITAL DOWNLOAD! Kimmo DVD available Now! Watch the promo here! Order your copy NOW! CLICK HERE! ENTERTAINER,MAGICIAN AND VENTRILOQUIST'S BLOG - DON'T READ THIS... |
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Mr. Pitts Inner circle David Pitts 1058 Posts |
We can ask for what we want, put it in a contract, whatever, but sometimes they won't provide it. I don't know about you, but I'm not a rockstar, so sometimes I have to be gracious and make it work. Acting like a primadonna (I'm not saying that you are Stephen) could be bad for my reputation, and in certain circles- librarians, school principals etc.. people do talk. This being said, if a situation is truly unacceptable, we should always reserve the right to pull the plug. I have done so once in 20 years. I can think of a couple of other times that perhaps I should have left but didn't. My solution to the inevitable parking problems we encounter is to think and pack like a busker. I have a handcart that I always use. If my show doesn't fit on the cart, I think it's safe to say it's getting too bulky and I need to downsize my gear. There have been many discussions already on this topic, so I don't want to start another, I'm just saying it's part of my solution. I try to be prepared for any kind of crappy situation and if I can, make it work.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
This is frequently a problem, and I usually just mutter to myself under me breath and do what has to be done to get my show ready. The times when this really becomes and issue is when I have back-to-back shows and simply cannot afford to waste time finding parking, loading zones, etc. In those situations, I will call the venue as I am heading their way and inform them that I will be their in X minutes, and that I will need a place to park and unload in close proximity to the show area. I often do late-night (early morning) post prom and graduation events and it's tough to find a kid to move their car out of a reserved space at 2:00 am .
I have a good friend who once was denied entry to a festival grounds unless he paid admission for himself, his assistants, and his parking. He had the contract and showed it to the person at the gate, but was still refused. He had to pay. |
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Scott O. Inner circle Midwest 1143 Posts |
I would suggest putting the parking information in your confirmation letter. If explained concisely, and in a pleasant manner, within the body of the letter, most people will attempt to make allowance for you. However, if you are dealing with with city parking, there isn't much the booker can do about that other than reimburse you. If you wish, just put a clause in the contract that states parking fees will be paid by the person booking the show. Or if you know the general cost of parking in a certain area "any parking fees will be paid at £10 per hour" or whatever.
Frankly, I'd just tell them when you're booking the show that your fee for the show is XYZ but parking is an additional X amount. That helps them understand the total fee. As far as the school show, I'd have just unloaded, parked my car where I could and walked back. In that case, the whole 'teacher' fiasco wouldn't have even happened. We provide a specialty service, but being gracious to others goes a long way toward growing or maintaining good relations with those who do the booking. Make it easy for THEM.
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts |
I ask for what I want but if it doesn't happen, my ultimate goal is to be easy to work with.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
For many school shows, I make advance arrangements to drive onto the school grounds and park by the gym, for loading and unloading. I leave my vehicle there for the whole show.
This usually means that they have to unlock a chain or gate. But like I said, arrangements are made in advance. There is no competition for parking on the school grounds, as opposed to the parking lot. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 11:04, Scott O. wrote: I respectfully disagree. Most people do not. Many medium- to large-sized organizations have several layers of bureaucracy, and often the booker is not even present at the event. Many people put the entertainer so far down the list of importance that our little problems do not amount to much in their eyes. Of course, our problems, as they relate to their show, are in reality their problems, but I suppose part of our service is to help solve their problems. I have, on more than one occasion, been booked in Chicago where parking is at a premium and I literally had to pay upwards to $50 and cart my show a city block to the venue, even though I had a parking stipulation in the contract and mentioned it to the booker. I think their idea of "parking" and "close proximity" is different from mine! LOL! Some people will attempt to help, certainly. But most? No, I think that sometimes we simply have to face reality and realize that we can ask, we can specify in writing, we can use riders, but the bottom line is we just have to deal with the situation as it is when we arrive. |
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tgs Regular user 142 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 10:51, Starrpower wrote: That's insane. In high school I did some sports reporting for the local paper. I didn't have a press pass; I just showed up to games and tournaments as a normal-looking 17-year-old with a yellow note pad. Nobody ever questioned me or made me pay admission. The thought of somebody at the gate believing a guy's just schlepping in massive prop cases, etc. to save a couple bucks on admission is pretty funny. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I have one annual fair that I work every year. A local small event. I pay my own admission, as does every volunteer at the event. It's just the way it is.
So long as I know in advance, it's not a big deal. If necessary, I may adjust my show fee to compensate for the extra expense. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Yes, it's insane, but some people have no common sense. Remember the little kid who brought a cake to school with a knife to cut it and was expelled for having a weapon? Zero tolerance = zero responsibility. I think that the gatekeeper would have denied the President admission!
I think the moral here is, do what you have to do and deal with the problems later. And if the problems are too big to overcome, or trample our own sense of good business practice, we always have the options of A) not doing the show, or B) not doing another show for that client. |
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Ken Dumm Inner circle 1239 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 07:12, kimmo wrote: Amen! |
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Hi,
I didn't wear the elf costume this year, and the teacher in question had no idea who I was. For all she could tell, she had no idea who I was and probably thought I was one of the parents picking up their child or something. It was more her behaviour in general, her downright rudeness. In my entire life, I had never met someone so rude and abusive, and she was school teacher for crying out loud. I felt so sorry for those children. The secretary had to apologise for her and she was hiding behind the wall waiting for me to come into the school, so she knew what she did was wrong. Its the first time in 15 years though that the thought of leaving even crossed my mind. And this was before I had even started setting up! But it wasn't the children's fault and I had already unloaded so I stayed and did the show. For all school shows, I just park as close as I can get and carry the stuff in. But I know some of you have nine trips to the car for your shows so that wouldn't really be an option for you. Paying to get into the venue for fairs and festivals etc. is a joke. When it has happened to me, I usually just call the client on my mobile and get them to meet me at the gate and let me in. As I mentioned in my first post, I usually just absorb the parking costs if its minor. Its only when its stupidly high (like the hotel in Manchester which was £12.80) that I get the reimbursement. As for giving up your space for the teacher... no. If you have large electrical equipment to unload, and your the guest of the school, then surely it should be the other way round. I will never request it but for the sake of this thread, surely common courteously and politeness would suggest that the person with all the equipment should get the parking space close to the door. A teacher doesn't have any of the heavy stuff to carry and guests are supposed to be treated with respect. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Was the teacher at your show, and did you look at her now and then? How did she behave at the show?
- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
God grant me the serenity....
I use that prayer at times during my strait jacket escape...at other times through out the day... I am guessing we all choose the battles with which we engage. Trips back and forth to the car...are part of the package...Festivals and parking passes come to my mind..My shows at school are mostly after hours..so I don't have any direct experience other than as stated above the importance to be viewed as easily worked with....Head Custodians are wonderful ..and can usually be drawn on to open gym or common side doors....Just be sure as you know to check in with the Front Office... Harris now where it that book...The Art of War...???? with tongue somewhere near my cheek...
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 12:47, ku7uk3 wrote: I find it amusing that you took a jab at other performers who choose to use lots of equipment. And yet, in the same post, you also argued for your right to park close for convenience, and your need to park close because of having large and heavy electrical equipment. - Donald P.S. I put some of my customer requests in my FAQs page, and not in my contract. Regardless of where it is, if I feel it's important, then I remind them of the point when calling to confirm the show a couple of days beforehand. I don't assume that they read the page, or remembered what they read a couple of months ago. At some shows, I end up with the customer or some other volunteers offering to help me carry in my equipment. I didn't demand it, but just explained my parking / loading request... they in turn, offered to help me out.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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61magic Special user Sacramento California 775 Posts |
To answer the original question "yes" I have canceled a show and left because of failure to meet contract terms and rude treatment.
I offer several shows to schools from small closeup shows to a stage show loaded with equipment and illusions. One school booked the large show, in the contract it is clear the client "must" provide parking and a loading/unloading area close to the venue. This is clear in the contract there are no exceptions. The contract is also clear failure to meet "any" terms of the contract "can/will" result in cancelation of the show at the expense of the client. Needless to say nothing was ready at the venue upon arrival. The confirmation letters had been sent and a confirmation call made 24 hours in advance (my standard procedure). I went into the office and asked for the principal to discuss this and let her know I was not going to unload my show and push it up the street in the middle of winter in the rain. The principal was very rude speaking to me as if I was a 4th grader sent to the office. I let her know I would be canceling the show and she said if I did she would take me to court... I advised her to read a copy of the contract she signed. She calmed down at that point and asked if I would reconsider and stay, I asked he to have someone move so I could get the truck up to the theater to unload and her reply was "I can't ask anyone to move their car in this kind of weather"... Needless to say I left and dropped the school off my list. While I understand many of you have a "the show must go on" policy and do your best to work with the client sometimes it can't be done. The customer is NOT always right... And "yes" I have performed at the same school the next season, but a different principal ran the school and "no" I didn't have any problems with contract terms. I've never had problems with any of the schools in that district with that one exception.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
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Scott O. Inner circle Midwest 1143 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 11:22, Starrpower wrote: Actually, I agree. We can try to make things easier with pre-arrangements. In the end though, if you work in this industry it is best to be able to go with the flow.
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
61Magic - Thankyou.
Donald, I have never 'jabbed' at any performer for the number of loads in it takes. I don't care in the slightest if you perform from a pencil case or ten boxes. All that matters is that most entertainers take 3 trips and take PA systems which don't want to get wet and are very heavy. In the case about parking, being close to the venue is vital. I think your confusing me with someone else. I should clarify one thing however. I understand if the venue is quite a distance away from the car park. I did a show in a sports hall, which I had to walk over a massive field to get to. I simply took a skeleton show so that I could do it in just one trip. My figures were in pain and bleeding from having to carry the ox that distance. My shoes and trousers were covered in mud and I was soaked from the rain. Yet I didn't complain, argue or say anything. I thought a lot of things, but I understood the problems here were beyond either of our control so just bit my lip and went with it. My argument is more for the situations where there are parking spaces near the entrance and not only have they not reserved them for the people carrying large equipment, but are refusing to think of anybody but themselves in this matter. Even then I would probably just bite my lip and get on with it. Its only when people like the teacher I mentioned was so rude that it gets your back up. As for your original question, I did not see her in the hall during the show. |
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