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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Borrowed coins vs. Appearing coins (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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HerraTaikuri
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Helsinki, Finland
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It's often said that magic is stronger and more convincing when done with borrowed objects and mostly I agree.
But lately I have been thinking which really is stronger, borrowing say four coins from the audience and then doing tricks with them or making them appear right before their eyes.
Both of course have advantages and disadvantages, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about the subject.
Denis Bastible
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Making coins appear out of the air. Check out "Flash Coins Re-lit" on Eric Jones' "Extension of Me" DVD, it is an amazing four coin production with flash paper. You cannot do something as crazy as that effect with borrowed coins and the audience does not think the appearing coins are not "real"
Wes65
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The largest coin that you can expect to be able to borrow in the US is a quarter, so if you are working with anything larger borrowing is not an option.
Wes
mago.niko
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In my opinion producing four coins seems more magical to the audience..
In the other hand, borrowing four coins makes the spectator to believe that you are as clean as possible.. You are using their own coins so they "eliminate" the possibility that you have a gimmick..
The first way works better for me as I don't use local coins but half dollars.. Sometimes though, I get borrowed some when they challenge me to perform a routine with local coins..
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Mb217
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Making coins appear gets the magic started quicker but in general I don't think specs care how you get the coins, whether having your own or using theirs...They care about what you do with them the most IMHO. Smile

I rarely borrow coins from people as I always have a few on me, especially the sorta coins they would certainly not have like Kennedy halves and or silver dollars. These coins are not tricky, just a larger and easier to see. I usually make coins appear from within doing the effect rather than making them appear and then doing the effect. But either/or works just fine IMHO. Better to have your own coins on you because you are more likely to have what you need or like working with.

Also, it is a small matter to allow specs to examine the coins before or after an effect. As long as they think the coins are regular coins, it doesn't much matter whether they are their coins or yours. Again, the real magic is in what you do with them, theirs or yours. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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HerraTaikuri
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I agree. When I use borrowed coins, I mainly do it because then switching it for a gimmicked one makes bigger impact IMHO.
And about that "Flash Coins Re-lit" priduction, wonderful effect but I live in Finland and sadly you can't get flashpaper from anywhere here Smile
Mb217
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Well it might deliver a bigger impact switching their coin for a gimmick but I gotta tellya that I believe specs react to the magic where they see it and do not connect one moment to the other that well. It is perhaps this dynamic that allows magic to work as we magician reorder reality to our advantage with all sorts of spices of deception. It has been my experience that specs simply follow along whichever way you take them in an effect. Any such magic happening with "their" coin isn't bigger at the moment than whatever magic is happening period (their coin or your coin), if that makes any sense? Smile

As to flash paper, you perhaps can't buy it in Finland for whatever reason but you should be able to purchase it off the internet from a magic shop and let the mail men in Finland just deliver it to you, correct? Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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HerraTaikuri
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I haven't seen any online shops that sell it internationally and I doupt that it wouldn't get trough customs.. Finnsh laws are little tight about pyrotechnics Smile
MaxfieldsMagic
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Quote:
On 2010-12-30 12:31, HerraTaikuri wrote:
I haven't seen any online shops that sell it internationally and I doupt that it wouldn't get trough customs.. Finnsh laws are little tight about pyrotechnics Smile


Maybe one of these will help:

http://www.lulu.com/product/file-downloa......r/709401

http://www.ehow.com/how_4882272_make-mag......per.html

http://www.magicmgmt.com/magicshop/index......temid=40
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Mb217
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Where there's a will, there's a way. Smile

Thanks Max. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
HerraTaikuri
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Yeah, thanks Smile I really have to give a try since I love fire effects Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-12-30 06:55, HerraTaikuri wrote:...which really is stronger, borrowing say four coins from the audience and then doing tricks with them or making them appear right before their eyes....


is your magic about you or about them?
if it's all about you - do what you will
if it's all about them then perhaps coins are a nice way to enroll them.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
leaycraft
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Please buy flash paper- don't try to make it. The risk isn't worth the cost of buying it.
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." A. Conan Doyle," The Sign of Four"
Jaz
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It depends on the situation.
Are you doing a gig?
Is it an impromptu moment?
Is there a challenge?
HerraTaikuri
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Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
if it's all about them then perhaps coins are a nice way to enroll them.


I really like that point of view since I try to enroll my audience as much as possible but I haven't really thought that possibility before, thanks.
rutabaga
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Despite my love for real silver, and a collection of Barbers, Walking Liberty's, Morgans and related gaffs, nothing gets a stronger reaction than borrowing four toonies, adding a little something courtesy of Roy Kueppers, and hitting them with Roth's Shelled Coins Across. Kills big every time.
J-Mac
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I work with half dollars but I have made a point to get a handful of quarter gaffs. No one ever has half dollars in their pockets anymore but they always have quarters. Borrowing quarters from a spectator always goes over well; whether it is the fact that they believe that you cannot possibly be using "trick" coins, or that those same coins you perform magical feats with are the same plain old coins that were sitting in their pockets along with the usual pocket fuzz. But borrowed coins - quarters of course - have always gone over big for me.

I've only been asked a few times if my half dollars - commonly Walking Liberty halves - were "trick" coins, but I suspect that others have thought the same, mostly because I am using coins that they rarely or never have seen before.

Thanks!

Jim
The Burnaby Kid
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Advantages and disadvantages to both. Magically producing coins means you're giving them extra magic. You're also in control of the type and number of coins, meaning you'll have enough to do your trick, and they won't all be pennies (assuming your intended routine doesn't involve pennies) so everybody should be able to see everything. You're also more in control of the performance atmosphere -- it's frequently a good idea to open a set using magic that demands very little from the audience, and lets them be passive. You can always build the necessary conviction later.

Borrowing coins, on the other hand, allows you to bring conviction to the magic. They won't suspect that the coins are gaffed somehow -- which may be important if the way the trick plays out there's a suspicion that trick coins could be in play, even if they're not. Plus, depending upon where you are in the set, a bit of audience interaction might be good. Also, if we're talking close-up and they don't need dollars or half-dollars to see everything, visibility problems might not be as bad.

My advice: Be prepared to do both -- it doesn't take that much extra effort. If you're opening with the trick, use your own coins, and have something in reserve using a borrowed coin or coins.
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funsway
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I have had great success with having a basket of mixed coins, poker chips and other small object that I get into the hands of spectators. Then I might ask for a "large silver coin" or a "brown one" or "one with a hole in it," etc. Since they get to handle and select the coins the impact is the same as borrrowing one -- yet I know the number and type available, and am prepared for the Gaff-Switch. However, I am also prepared to do an effect with any coin or object selected at random. Ike dollars even are OK -- but I wouldn't trust passing out old silver coins with an unknown audience.
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MaxfieldsMagic
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That's a really good idea, Funsway.
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