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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Silent Mora wand spin production? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

PetePennekett
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A question for those of you who use a wand when performing coin magic, or for those of you who don't but have put thought into it:

I'm quite certain that I'm not the first to think of this, and on that basis; Has anyone considered using the Vernon/Mora wand spin as a production? Has anyone gone a step further and performed it? Obviously this is not confined to coins but that's what I'm thinking of using it for. I've been playing with it for a few days and it looks pretty good to my eyes (Although in need of a lot of refinement), particularly since you can take advantage of one of several subtleties during the spin based on which concealment you use in the first instance.

If it has, as I suspect, been done before does anyone have footage of it in a performance?

I should mention for anyone who might consider trying this that because of the positional requirements of the hands during the spin it seems harder to me than the traditional Vernon/Mora vanish and consequently I've managed to hit my knuckles with the end of the wand on many occasions.

Taking it a step further, and I'm certain this will have been done, has anyone used the original Silent Mora fan vanish in reverse? Logically this should be much easier but I haven't put any research at all into this.

Any thoughts welcomed.

~ Pete.

Just in case anyone somehow hasn't seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De2tyFK8WA0

The Vernon/Mora wand spin is shown at 1:53 and a beautiful vanish it is too. Unfortunately I can't find any footage of Vernon preforming at a younger age as I suspect that he isn't quite at his best with regard to this particular sleight in the video I've linked above (Although I still think it's one of the best performances around). If you're interested and haven't looked into it, Michael Ammar performs this sleight very nicely in his Cups & Balls routine.

~ Pete.
mavericklancer
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I know this isn't exactly a useful comment, but I just had to say... that looks absolutely beautiful.
Mb217
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This is the "wand spin" very well done, very smooth. I actually learned it from watching this more so than anything else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crmxCwjb7KY
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PetePennekett
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For anyone interested here's a low quality, badly edited video of me trying this idea out after 20 mins or so of practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlV0o6qccy8 (This link is not public so the video can only be viewed via this link)

In mitigation you can at least see my cat in the background.

~ Pete.
Orb
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Ah this is really great, beautiful move! These sort of spins usually originates from a manipulation art known as pen spinning. The move widely used appears to be the Twisted Sonic (watching these videos probably shows that this one specific move might be much older than the pen spinning art itself). I've been doing this artform for slightly over 7 years now, and have thought of a lot of ways to incorporate it with coin magic.

One idea I use is for a 4 coin production, where they are in CP. The penspinning makes for a superb subtlety (using either a wand or a pen). If your controll is good enough, you are able to keep the 4 coins in CP and spin the object just as if your hand was empty, then with a motion as displayed by Pete, they can be produced one by one.

Another idea is to have any number of coins in FP, as a very convincing subtlety to show your hand empty, you can use either a wand or a pen to spin the object back and forth using something called a thumbaround. Doing this fluidly makes for a beautiful flourish, and since it only needs your index and middle finger, your FP'ed coins held by the ringfinger are not affected. Also this move requires hardly any motions from your fingers, keeping your angles as steady as FP allows them to be.

If there would be any demands I would gladly help anyone out who would require assistance with these spinning moves.
PetePennekett
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Thanks for your response - Can I ask how you hold your hand during the wand spin in order to prevent flashing during your classic palm production? For instance the way Michael Ammar performs the wand spin vanish involves fully opening the hand and displaying the palm during the spin, which clearly wouldn't work with a multiple CP production. I played around with it for a while and found that I could prevent any kind of flashing on a single production from CP, but I think the way I'm currently doing it would cause remaining coins in CP to flash. Do you have any footage of yourself performing the effect?

The spin you mentioned for use with finger palm sounds like what Michael Ammar describes at the 'drummer spin' which is something I use quite a lot - I particularly like that you can get a Ramsey-esque subtlety when spinning in this way either vertically or horizontally and each looks like a different spin.

Do you have any suggestions about where I could look into pen spinning? It sounds like I could benefit from putting some practice into further techniques in this area.

Cheers,

~ Pete.
Xcath1
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I would have to say the vidoes of the professor are when he was past his physical prime. I have seen Michael Ammar do this live and on his DVDs and have never seen better.
Orb
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Hey pete. What seems to be done during the Wand Spin is that in order to get more of a spin motion, the wrist is turned, giving it a longer duration and more of a spin. There is however no need to do that, there are several ways to maintain that motion without turning your wrist, and by that keeping your angles at a safe position.

As an example, during the wand spin, you can start at your pinky and ring finger, starting off with a wand spin (also known as a Twisted Sonic), and then once reaching the middle and ring finger, by simply doing a pass (a small part of a fingerpass) you can continue the spin, by doing this you have basically recreated the effect but doing it at safer angles. If you wish to extend the spin even further, or maybe you really want to start at the middle and ringfinger position, you can just end the spin by doing a thumbaround.

There are some penspinning communities out there, but which consists of showing off rather than learning and teaching, I'm not sure if you'd get the support you're looking for there. If you PM me I'd gladly help a fellow coin worker out with any spinning move you might want to learn, if you're interested I could make a demo of some moves which I incorporate in my coin magic.
Sean Giles
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Hey Orb, if you make a demo video, as you said, I would love to see it. Maybe you could post it here Smile

Kind regards
Sean
Orb
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Hey, I'd be happy to! I've been lurking around at this community for very long now, learning so much, it'd be a pleasure to finally be able to give back some!

I'll see if I can get the webcam working tomorrow.
Ekuth
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Wow... what a gift to see the master perform. Even knowing what is done and where, I still couldn't catch him about 2/3 of the time. The wand flourish vanish? Art. Pure art.
"All you need is in Fitzkee."
Dr_J_Ayala
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I have a couple of coin routines that use a wand to produce and vanish coins, one using the Vernon/Mora wand spin, and another using a silk and coins. They are routines that I came up with and I have not put them on video yet. My routine that uses the wand to produce coins does not use CP as a holdout, but rather other methods to make it flow smoothly, and incidentally, much cleaner.

I will say this: Try doing the Vernon/Mora wand spin using your fingers only, without opening your hand fully. Combine that with a bit of Kaps Subtlety. To do a Kaps Subtlety display with the wand, hold it much the way you would hold a pen or pencil when in rest (not writing with it, but using your middle finger to, say, punch keys on a calculator), and hold the wand toward the middle. You can can give quite a convincing display of an empty hand from this position. From there, you go into the Vernon/Mora spin with the fingers.

I hope this helps.
billappleton
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This is a pretty decent tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN4KZ9K5OIw

might not be able to keep something in the hand while performing these examples...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXfjgkIbfns

More...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZdiJLZykNc

:)
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