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LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-01-11 21:14, balducci wrote:

Nowhere does it indicate that left-wing bias is merely alleged. It does not say that. Quite the opposite.


NOWHERE? ok, here's the line I was looking at that sure seems to indicate that to me:

'It (Fox) accused almost all other media of left-wing bias and presented its own clearly partisan coverage and punditry as “fair and balanced."'

Where's the "quite the opposite" indication? Where are the references to suggest that left-wing bias is actually present? The only reference I see to left-wing bias is that Fox has ACCUSED other media outlets of such bias. Moreover, the accusation has come from Fox, whose "star pundit" is identified 3 sentences later as having a "blithe disregard for facts," thereby softening the "accusations."

The Fox bias isn't an "accusation" from other organizations or commentators; they are identified as "clearly partisan"; where is the reference to left-wing bias, other than in your parenthetical annotations to the article?
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ringmaster
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On 2011-01-11 14:57, Carrie Sue wrote:
Woland,

You're absolutely correct.

Carrie

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Lobo, I guess we must agree to disagree. As I said, perhaps if you'd read more of Doyle's articles (his opinion pieces in particular) over the years you would see what I see.
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LobowolfXXX
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On 2011-01-11 21:38, balducci wrote:
Lobo, I guess we must agree to disagree. As I said, perhaps if you'd read more of Doyle's articles (his opinion pieces in particular) over the years you would see what I see.


The article's only reference to left-wing bias is that Fox ACCUSED other media outlets of it. You still disagree and maintain that NOWHERE in the article does it say that the bias is alleged? Are 'accused' and 'alleged' not synonymous in this case?

Where does it make ANY reference left-wing bias other than to cite the Fox "accusations" of such bias? The article flat-out states that Fox is biased (ok, "clearly partisan"). Where does it say anything at all of the sort about other media outlets?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-11 21:43, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-11 21:38, balducci wrote:
Lobo, I guess we must agree to disagree. As I said, perhaps if you'd read more of Doyle's articles (his opinion pieces in particular) over the years you would see what I see.


The article's only reference to left-wing bias is that Fox ACCUSED other media outlets of it. You still disagree and maintain that NOWHERE in the article does it say that the bias is alleged? Are 'accused' and 'alleged' not synonymous in this case?

Where does it make ANY reference left-wing bias other than to cite the Fox "accusations" of such bias? The article flat-out states that Fox is biased (ok, "clearly partisan"). Where does it say anything at all of the sort about other media outlets?

What? Honestly, you've lost me.

Again, it starts early on by noting: "As the news of the shootings sank in on Saturday, there was a numbness to the TV coverage – the reporting of the plain facts of what happened. Then the story evolved into something else. That happened as soon MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann took to the air to allege that Sarah Palin played a significant role in raising the volume of vitriol in the U.S. and to blame Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck of Fox News for the level of extremism in partisan political argument."

Clearly it is citing an example here of Olberman at MSNBC making biased allegations. It is NOT saying that the bias of MSNBC (say, that Fox News might claim) is alleged. Rather, it is giving a concrete example of MSNBC left-wing bias right from the start.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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I should have taken your word for it the first time; looks like a clear-cut case of agree to disagree.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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Okay, I was avoiding zombie hunting today... but decided I have to take a shot.

As soon as someone can give me a plausible explanation of how "second amendment remedies" can be anything other than violence or threat of violence with firearms, I will agree that the violent rhetoric is less than one-sided.

By the way- no one here has really bothered to define "violent rhetoric". Here's a definition I agree with:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011......re-18397
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dpe666
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Everyone seems to be making excuses for this kid. "He is mentally ill (so am I)", "it is talk radio (no evidence that he listens to talk radio)", "it is conservatism (he is not a conservative)", "it is heavy metal music". Why can't people just say the truth? The truth is that he is evil. Pure and simple. I mean, I listen to talk radio nearly all day long. I am a conservative, and I listen to extremely heavy metal. But I never even once considered killing anyone. Look at the police picture of this kid. He is proud of what he has done. The only reason he did this is that he is evil.
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I'm not making excuses. The blame lies with the shooter.

But I wonder- if there was no violent rhetoric coming from the media, would his target have been the same?
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LobowolfXXX
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That's genius. A definition that essentially categorically exempts Democratic candidates and politicians from ever espousing "violent rhetoric," because their intended audiences are generally opposed to guns and military conflicts. So Obama must, by the same logic, get a pass for bringing a gun to a knife fight, and even the map with bullseyes - even including specified "targeted Republicans" - doesn't qualify. Sheer rhetorical genius.

It does make one wonder why a speaker as gifted as Obama, and an organization so dependent on liberal voters as the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee would risk alienating their audiences with violent imagery so antithetical to their peace-loving intended audience. They must have lost many voters with those anti-audience messages.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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Lobo- define "second amendment remedies". I sincerely doubt any Democrat has called for anything as overt.
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Any Democrat, or any politician? Or any major candidate?

Al Sharpton was a Democratic candidate for everything from Mayor of New York to President of the United States. Not a serious contender, but someone who has earned hundreds of thousands of votes. He led a mob chanting "No Justice, No Peace" in the immediate wake of the Yankel Rosenbaum killing. His comments with respect to the "Freddy's Fashion Mart" riot were particularly incendiary. Is he an almost-U.S. Senator? No. On the other hand, he has a history of being embraced by the Democratic party, and was a featured speaker at the 2004 DNC.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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Scott Cram
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On 2011-01-11 23:47, EsnRedshirt wrote:
I'm not making excuses. The blame lies with the shooter.

But I wonder- if there was no violent rhetoric coming from the media, would his target have been the same?


His target has been the same since 2007, according to the Wall Street Journal:

Suspect Fixated on Giffords

Quote:
Accused gunman Jared Lee Loughner appeared to have been long obsessed with U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

A safe at Mr. Loughner’s home contained a form letter from Ms. Giffords’ office thanking him for attending a 2007 “Congress on your Corner” event in Tucson. The safe also held an envelope with handwritten notes, including the name of Ms. Giffords, as well as “I planned ahead,” “My assassination,” and what appeared to be Mr. Loughner’s signature, according to an FBI affidavit.

Federal authorities charged Mr. Loughner on Sunday with two counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder and a count of attempting to kill a member of Congress, during a scheduled public appearance by Ms. Giffords here Saturday. More charges are expected, officials said, and Mr. Loughner, age 22, remains in federal custody. He will appear in federal court in Phoenix on Monday afternoon.

Mr. Loughner had complained to a friend about how he was treated by the Arizona lawmaker during an event several years ago, which aggravated Mr. Loughner, according to the friend.


Context: Nobody outside of Alaska even knew the name Sarah Palin until Aug. 29, 2008, when John McCain announced her as his choice of running mate.
LobowolfXXX
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It doesn't necessarily have to be Sarah Palin's fault. It could be Bill O'Reilly's fault.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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Quote:
On 2011-01-11 23:47, EsnRedshirt wrote:
I'm not making excuses. The blame lies with the shooter.

But I wonder- if there was no violent rhetoric coming from the media, would his target have been the same?


Was the violent rhetoric against George Bush ok with you? The heat REALLY got turned up the second he won. Why is it that libs forget that there was that movie about killing him? Why is it that they forget and implicantly condone it when they dislike the person that is being villified? The left wing has raised villification of the other side to an art form, heck books are written about it.

The guy was a nut job. How is it that each side wants to try to paint him on the other side? He had no side, his mind was on Mars!

Why is it though that the media seems to py FAR less attention to the republican judge who was killed?
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For all the rethoric, it is done. The fallen are no longer with us.

If you want to blame anybody, blame the Shooter.

I am sure you are all right from your perspective.

I am sure you are all very articulate and very very strong minded with your beliefs.

I am sure you all would fight tooth and nail to defend your beliefs.

Just realize that when strong men fight...

Little kids die.
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LobowolfXXX
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How does that quotation relate to the Gifford shooting?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Pakar Ilusi
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Quote:
On 2011-01-12 03:39, LobowolfXXX wrote:
How does that quotation relate to the Gifford shooting?


What's done is done.

But the way things are going now... He says this. They say that.

Gun control. No gun control.

I am right, you are wrong. They are wrong, we are right.

It feels like it would escalate to the point where another crazy could get the inspiration or justification to "copycat" to prove a point.

You push this rethoric (the buzz word nowadays) far enough, someone is bound to cross the line.

He would be crazy, but he would not have been uninspired... By whichever side, it doesn't matter.

School shootings breed school shootings.

This could hit the fan at any moment if it keeps up like this.

Anyone can justify anything with anything really if they're loony enough.

That's what I am cautioning against.

But that's just my opinion.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi, You're right, the shooter is a lunatic who acted not from any political position, but because he is insane. But as shown in the articles I quoted, above, it was the left wing media, and many Democratic Party politicians, who immediately seized on this event in order to make political hay. Weeks before the shooting, commentators in the media openly wrote that what the President needed to restore his popularity was some kind of a mass criminal event that he could blame on the conservatives.

Mark Halperin published in TIME magazine......hooting:

Quote:
No one wants the country to suffer another catastrophe. But when a struggling Bill Clinton was faced with the Oklahoma City bombing and a floundering George W. Bush was confronted by 9/11, they found their voices and a route to political revival.


The shooter was not motivated or inspired by anybody's rhetoric on either side, but only one side is attempting to use this event to silence their opponents and make criticism of their leaders and their policies legally and morally impossible.

Woland
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By the way, if there is a scandal here, it is the failure of the Tucson police to do something about this lunatic before he killed six people. According to the New York Times:

Quote:
TUCSON — The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday.

A spokesman, Jason Ogan, said the details of the calls were being reviewed by legal counsel and would be released as soon as the review was complete. He said he did not know what the calls were about — they could possibly have been minor, even trivial matters — or whether they involved Jared Loughner or another member of the household.


I'll bet the sheriff and the chief of police have got their legal counsel hard at work!

Woland
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