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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » The press and the Gifford shooting (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicSanta
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I like it...an Aussie trying to talk sense to a Canadian about the US!
Destiny
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Santa
Australia has been pretending to be your friend for decades so we can take you by surprise when we invade. We sent Rupert Murdoch ahead to soften you up with Fox News. Portia de Rossi is our number one spy - Ellen is divulging all your National Security secrets every night in bed. Ellen thinks Portia can't understand her accent but Portia is nothing if not a cunning linguist.

We brainwashed Oprah while she was here, and invented a half sister in order to keep a minder near her.

I suggest you all practice saying 'Gidday.'
MagicSanta
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I understand....we love Aussies y'all can invade anytime....

Hey, I saw that Murdochs yacht...he is loaded.
Kevin Ridgeway
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No worries
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critter
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Will we all be forced to carry giant knives and drive Subaru Outbacks? Will "Reckless Kelly" be thawed out to lead the charging hordes of great white sharks and marsupials? ****, I'm already out of Oz stereotypes.
If Australia is anything like "Crocodile Dundee" then it must be totally awesome.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-01-27 16:36, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-27 14:18, landmark wrote:
Lobo--You describe Soul Man and then seem to draw no conclusion. The point is exactly that of false choices.



I thought my conclusion was clear (Don't we always, I guess?); the fact that Howell's character did have a choice meant that in no way was his situation analogous to "being black," regardless of the hardships and slights that he endured.

Similarly, the fact that employment with a given company is voluntary means that it's not "slavery" or "theft" or any other word that implies a non-consensual dealing.

There may be choices available, but it doesn't mean they are fair ones. African-Americans in this country tend to be offered choices which are much less fair (e.g. you can choose to drive a fancy car, but be prepared to be arrested in your own driveway for choosing it.)

You are never, as a worker, given a fair choice. The wages you get are based on the supply of labor available, not on the value you are adding on to the raw materials of production. If unemployment goes up all of a sudden, employers can pay lower wages, and yet your skill level has not changed, you are still the same person. Therefore you are being cheated out of the true value of your work. And yes you have the choice to not work, but that is a Hobson's choice. The one thing that workers have to equalize the playing field is the right to collectively negotiate and bargain--which is precisely why the first task of the business class is to wipe out the unions. Woland's point about value being determined between buyer and seller does not affect the labor value that the worker has put in--if a seller manages to sell for a higher price today then yesterday, the additional profit goes to the shareholders, not the workers.
MagicSanta
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They have an aborigany woman who looks just like Oprah. Sounds like her also.
Destiny
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Critter,

You and I may be the only people who saw Yahoo Serious's second movie.

Most Australians live in an urban sprawl no different to the US or Canadian versions.

20 years ago there were plenty of Dundee type characters around up North where I live - Steve Irwin was a bit of a caricature (though a nice man) but there were real guys - one of the best, Malcolm Douglas, was killed in a car accident recently. When I moved to Cairns in the eighties there were cassowaries living on the hill behind me - now all gone. Occasionally a croc was moved along for loitering on a city street - now they'd send in a swat team. A lot of people are moving to the isolated tropics because it's different and then doing their best to make it the same. The world is becoming homogenised.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-28 00:15, Destiny wrote:

When I moved to Cairns in the eighties there were cassowaries living on the hill behind me - now all gone.

For those who, like myself, had no idea what a cassowary is:

http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/worlds......ird.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Destiny
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I love cassowaries - amazing looking animal but they are truly dangerous - when I worked in wildlife shows we had stricter safety protocols for dealing with these big chickens than for the crocs.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-01-28 00:10, landmark wrote:
Woland's point about value being determined between buyer and seller does not affect the labor value that the worker has put in--if a seller manages to sell for a higher price today then yesterday, the additional profit goes to the shareholders, not the workers.


The value of a PRODUCT is determined between the buyer and the seller of that product. The value of labor is determined between the buyer (employer) and seller (employee) of that labor.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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"The value of labor is determined between the buyer (employer) and seller (employee) of that labor."
No. That was exactly my point above. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. The laborer's wages are determined by the supply of labor available, in the absence of collective bargaining. The price of labor tends to even out within an industry as no company can afford to give its competitors an edge.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-01-28 00:59, landmark wrote:
"The value of labor is determined between the buyer (employer) and seller (employee) of that labor."
No. That was exactly my point above. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. The laborer's wages are determined by the supply of labor available, in the absence of collective bargaining. The price of labor tends to even out within an industry as no company can afford to give its competitors an edge.


The supply of labor is one factor in determining the value (as is the supply of anything else). There are other factors, as well. That's true both in the absence and in the presence of collective bargaining. Collective bargaining uses the threat of decreasing the supply of labor to raise the price that employers will pay for the labor, which is analogous to products that sell for a higher price when they're scarce.

The value is determined between the buyer and the seller; the supply of labor available doesn't "determine" the value of the labor - it influences the choices of the buyer and the seller as to what value to agree upon.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-28 01:10, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Collective bargaining uses the threat of decreasing the supply of labor to raise the price that employers will pay for the labor, which is analogous to products that sell for a higher price when they're scarce.

Perhaps I misunderstand your terms, but how does a threat of decreasing the supply of labor come into it?

They use collective bargaining where I work, and I've never heard of any such threat. I don't see how it would even be possible.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Threat of a strike, thus no experienced work force.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-28 01:19, MagicSanta wrote:
Threat of a strike, thus no experienced work force.

Okay, that's what I thought Lobo might mean.

But groups that do collective bargaining do NOT always have the right to strike.

Where I work, in a particular "industry", they do collective bargaining but the employees by law are not allowed to strike. Or work to rule. So, FWIW, collective bargaining does NOT always use the threat of decreasing the supply of labor.

Of course, maybe things are different in the U.S. I'm not familiar with your labor laws.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Yeah...I always thought that defeated the purpose. Then there are those like my brother in law whos 'union' decided to strike but they made too much money so they hired people to walk w/ signs while they went to work anyway. They all got fired.
balducci
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On 2011-01-15 19:57, MagicSanta wrote:
Darn it, now I need to get me a glock.

Utah is trying to make the Browning M1911 the official gun of Utah.

You should call your congresspeople / senators / whatever and try to get dibs on the Glock before it is too late!
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Good point....

Hey, good news for libs! Sharon Angle, the woman who somehow lost to a man who only had a 9% approval rating, implied she is ready to run for president!
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-28 01:57, MagicSanta wrote:

Hey, good news for libs! Sharon Angle, the woman who somehow lost to a man who only had a 9% approval rating, implied she is ready to run for president!

Angle and Bachmann, now there's a ticket!
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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