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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » The press and the Gifford shooting (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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balducci
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On 2011-01-20 00:49, acesover wrote:

Why do I have several guns? Well it is really again none of your business but I will say that in the last 30 years their value has increased more than 5 times their original purchase price. But that is not why I purchased them in the first place. I use and enjoy shooting them. Hope that answers your question.

I'm happy to hear that you enjoy them.

But I am even happier to hear that you did not buy them as investments because as investments go, 5x over 30 years is lousy. Just to keep up with inflation, any investment made in 1980 would have had to nearly triple in value by now. Too bad you had not invested that money in, say, Microsoft stock (you'd be up about 300 times, not just 5). Even with an investment in a boring safe company like Procter & Gamble you would have increased your money by over 30 times.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Acesover I wasn't refering to you but you as a general reference not you as specific to you. Yes Jay Leno is a car nut.

My tour in the military? I was in the Fauklands during the war there (only because we happened to be the closest ones to it when it started), I was in Africa during their issues, and Beirut during the Lebannon civil war and the bombing of the marine house and was part of the heaviest bombing since the Vietnam War. We blew up sheep, cows, and at least one Syrian general. I still feel bad about the cows.
Woland
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MagicSanta,

According to the United States Code (Title 10, A, I, 13, 311): "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."

Hope that helps,

Woland
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Well, landmark, with respect to whether the restrictions even "shall issue" States place on concealed carry are constitutional, let's just say that I think Vermont has the right idea. (And I hadn't noticed that Vermont was a locus of unrestricted gunfighting; that activity takes place in the most severely restricted gun controlled areas of the country, Chicago and Washington, D.C.)

Woland
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MagicSanta,

You mentioned this idea:

Quote:
I may be wrong about this one but it is due to my own ignorance of fire arms. I believe a data base of the markings made on a bullet should be kept so that if a weapon is used in a crime it is like a dna or finger print data base and the weapon can be identified. The data base can be collected by the manufacturer and associated with serial numbers.


Based on the experience of the State of Maryland, you are wrong about this one, LOL. They spent a king's ransom on maintaining a case fired from every firearm sold in the State (causing the major manufacturers to package such a fired case with every weapon sold, even outside of Maryland) without solving a single crime. A useless nuisance.

Moreover, the scientific data on case identification (like the data on fingerprints) is lacking. That is, there have never been the proper scientific studies to determine the performance characteristics of the test, i.e. the false negative rate, false positive rate, etc.

Woland
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Finally, here is Eric Blair telling you all you need to know about the Press and the Tucson shooting:

Quote:
The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of IngSoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought — that is, a thought diverging from the principles of IngSoc — should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meaning and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words and stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings, and so far as possible of all secondary meaning whatever.


Woland
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 01:09, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-20 00:49, acesover wrote:

Why do I have several guns? Well it is really again none of your business but I will say that in the last 30 years their value has increased more than 5 times their original purchase price. But that is not why I purchased them in the first place. I use and enjoy shooting them. Hope that answers your question.

I'm happy to hear that you enjoy them.

But I am even happier to hear that you did not buy them as investments because as investments go, 5x over 30 years is lousy. Just to keep up with inflation, any investment made in 1980 would have had to nearly triple in value by now. Too bad you had not invested that money in, say, Microsoft stock (you'd be up about 300 times, not just 5). Even with an investment in a boring safe company like Procter & Gamble you would have increased your money by over 30 times.



You are right in your assement as their being a bad investment for investment sake. However I have gotten much more enjoyment out of them over the years that I would have if I put it in stock of some sort. But even then one had better choose carefully as to which stock they choose. I would imagine General Motors was a very safe and stable stock 30 years ago. Along with several others we could mention here. Or I could have invested it in that company that ...oh wait they went under.

Then only sure thing is there are no sure things in the stock market.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 06:43, Woland wrote:

Based on the experience of the State of Maryland, you are wrong about this one, LOL. They spent a king's ransom on maintaining a case fired from every firearm sold in the State (causing the major manufacturers to package such a fired case with every weapon sold, even outside of Maryland) without solving a single crime. A useless nuisance.

The database was actually used to obtain its first murder conviction way, way back in 2005. AND it has led to other convictions since then. And the cost of the program was hardly a "king's ransom". Not stating an opinion here, just clearing up the facts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art......pr1.html

Saturday, April 2, 2005 ...

The verdict against Robert Garner, 21, marked the first time that prosecutors in Maryland have used information from a statewide ballistics database to obtain a conviction, law enforcement officials said." It has led to other convictions since then.

The casings recovered at the murder scene matched a casing that was on file with Maryland State Police, showing that the weapon was purchased by Garner's then-girlfriend (now his wife) in a Forestville store about three weeks before the killing, according to trial testimony.

"That evidence was the cornerstone of our case," said Glenn F. Ivey, the Prince George's state's attorney. "It was powerful evidence. I hope this verdict helps our efforts to have the [ballistics identification database] continued and expanded."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Woland
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Thanks, balducci, I wasn;t aware of that case.
critter
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So last night I was switching back and forth between Rachel Maddow and Sean Hannity and I could not tell the difference.
They claim to be polar opposites, and yet they were both using the exact same insulting and blaming (and disinforming) tone and language, just against opposite sides.
It's all the same. It's all the same crap. They both do exactly the same things. When you go to the extreme right or left all you get are absolutists. They're all the same. There is no far right or far left, there's just far extremist garbage.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Dannydoyle
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The problem is that they spend so much time trying to villify the other side that they lose track of what they believe.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicSanta
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Durn data bases! You see, I have suggestion and have the ability to change a position based on provided information. I'm not set in stone....
Woland
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Here's another interesting comment on the Second Amendment and the Civil Rights Movement:

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There’s nothing unusual about this. Many civil rights activists—including those who publicly engaged in non-violent forms of resistance—kept guns for self-defense. T.R.M. Howard, the Mississippi doctor and mutual aid leader who founded the pioneering Regional Council of Negro Leadership, slept with a Thompson submachine gun at the foot of his bed. During the murder trial that followed the horrific lynching of 14-year-old Emmett Till, Howard escorted Till’s grieving mother and various others to and from the courthouse in a heavily-armed caravan.

Similarly, John R. Salter, one of the organizers of the famous 1963 sit-ins against segregated lunch counters in Jackson, Mississippi, said he always “traveled armed” while working as a civil rights organizer in the South. “I'm alive today because of the Second Amendment and the natural right to keep and bear arms,” Salter said.


We are a free country today because of the Second Amendment, too.

Woland
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 04:53, Woland wrote:
Well, landmark, with respect to whether the restrictions even "shall issue" States place on concealed carry are constitutional, let's just say that I think Vermont has the right idea. (And I hadn't noticed that Vermont was a locus of unrestricted gunfighting; that activity takes place in the most severely restricted gun controlled areas of the country, Chicago and Washington, D.C.)

Woland

Just to be clear then, because I don't want to mischaracterize your position, according to you, the Constitution does not allow the restriction of guns to felons, the mentally ill, and fugitives.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 11:52, critter wrote:
So last night I was switching back and forth between Rachel Maddow and Sean Hannity and I could not tell the difference.
They claim to be polar opposites, and yet they were both using the exact same insulting and blaming (and disinforming) tone and language, just against opposite sides.
It's all the same. It's all the same crap. They both do exactly the same things. When you go to the extreme right or left all you get are absolutists. They're all the same. There is no far right or far left, there's just far extremist garbage.

No, it's not the same. They have two opposite opinions. You may think they have similar styles of voicing their opinions, but they are still quite opposite, and will result in very different consequences.
Woland
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Well, landmark, restrictions like that are in place in Vermont, and I think are generally acceptable. I think it is usual under the common law for felons, for example to forfeit many civil rights and privileges. I think that in Vermont unrestricted carry is available to adults who are without the sort of disqualifications you mention. I think you need to have a driver's license or some other form of identification, too.

Note however that a law making it a crime for a criminal to do something will not prevent criminals from doing it. That's why they are criminals in the first place.

Woland
landmark
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Woland, but why disqualifications at all? It doesn't mention any in the Constitution though you think they are generally acceptable. Nothing about felons or the mentally ill that I can see in the Second Amendment.

Or is it open to interpretation, and the balancing of other rights, as is the First amendment and all the others?
Dannydoyle
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Felons can not vote either, for example Bill Clinton.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
gdw
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If someone desires to harm with a gun, then they will get a gun. Also, they'll be able to get one a hell of a lot more quickly than anyone else who wants one for"legitimate" reasons, through legitimate sources.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-20 23:13, gdw wrote:

Also, they'll be able to get one a hell of a lot more quickly than anyone else who wants one for"legitimate" reasons, through legitimate sources.

Not necessarily. Maybe a certain subclass of hardened criminal with contacts can get a gun faster. But in many States, a citizen with a clean record can legally obtain a gun in no time at all.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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