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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » The press and the Gifford shooting (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicSanta
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I've not been following this since I didn't care for all the bs involved with the stories. I do have one question, initially they said he had a 9mm semi auto pistol, is that all he used? He did one hell of a lot of damage with a pistol, it's been done on a larger scale before but it seems as if I may not have heard what happened during the actual attack. Can anyone explain using fewer words than I did to ask?
Scott Cram
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OMG! Sarah Palin said "Blood libel"! Oh NOEZ! (She's been reminded that she should only use Democrat-approved tactics, such as referring to political opponents as "Hitler".)

It gets worse! Sarah Palin turned me into a newt! (I got better.)

That does it! We need to prove once and for all that Jared Loughner is a Tea Partier! If he weighs the same as a duck, he's made of wood, and therefore a Tea Partier! To the scales!

/Just maintaining this thread's current level of discourse and reason going
EsnRedshirt
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Landmark- Arizona is a legal concealed-carry state. You don't even have to wear your gun openly.

Santa- the 9mm had an extended clip and could hold 31 bullets.
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Woland
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Thanks, balducci. I don't think it really was the "blood libel" phrase that attracted controversy, I think it was the speaker.

landmark, not everyone is "hoplophobic," i.e. inordinately afraid of weapons. To some people, such as Mrs. Woland I might add, the presence of a trustworthy armed man who she knows can reliably hit a target is downright comforting.

Regarding the rifle carrying African-American previously mentioned, the AP reported:

Quote:
Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.

The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said.


I think that confirms my recollection of his peaceful intentions.

Woland
MagicSanta
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Okay, extended clip makes sense. Too bad someone in the audience didn't have a weapon or perhaps they could have stopped the fellow.
critter
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Quote:
On 2011-01-12 17:19, MagicSanta wrote:
Okay, extended clip makes sense. Too bad someone in the audience didn't have a weapon or perhaps they could have stopped the fellow.


It is my understanding that he was tackled and restrained by audience members.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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On 2011-01-12 15:18, landmark wrote:
Dershowitz has been thoroughly discredited as a plagiarist


Maybe he'll be on a ticket as VP in '12!
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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EsnRedshirt
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Santa- maybe. But remember- I did say Arizona was a concealed carry state. Anyone could have had a weapon. Of course, unless they were right next to the shooter, they wouldn't even know anything was amiss until he started firing. And at that point, he could probably have still emptied his extended clip before they could draw, remove the safety, aim, and fire. (And hope they didn't miss, firing into a crowd.)
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MagicSanta
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Why was there no police presence?
Woland
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There was a fellow in the convenience store who did have a CCW permit and a pistol with him. By the time he was aware of the problem outside, and was able to make a move in that direction, he explained, the shooter had already been tackled. I think he may have had a role in restraining him.

Woland
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-01-12 16:53, Woland wrote:

Thanks, balducci. I don't think it really was the "blood libel" phrase that attracted controversy, I think it was the speaker.

Well, perhaps. I suspect, like Goldman in the National Review, that a number of Jewish people really are upset about this, regardless of the speaker. Right now there are several Jewish lobby groups criticizing Palin for her choice of words (even though Palin is a strong supporter of Israel, as I understand it). If she wants ever again to run for higher office, she is going to have to avoid these "obvious" missteps. This is already news in the Israeli press, for whatever that is worth.

The following is totally unrelated to the U.S. incident but it is interesting to see that Israel presently has its own controversy over speech that incites violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opi......1.336531

Heh. Copycats. Smile
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Kevin Ridgeway
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For the record, one can open carry in Arizona as well. The phrase 'concealed carry' is used quite often as a catch all for a state that allows one to carry a firearm. However, it is not the most accurate phrase to use. We split our down time between Arizona & Indiana. We are currently in Arizona and as one would assume, the news here is following the mass shooting closer than anyone.

Our 'concealed carry' permit is from Indiana. It is not however a 'concealed carry'...it is a permit to carry. The holder of said permit has the choice to carry concealed or open carry. Arizona's law is concealed carry with no permit....open carry with permit.

Hope that helps.
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balducci
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So you need a permit to DISPLAY that you are carrying a firearm in Arizona?

But NO permit is required if you want to conceal the fact that you are carrying a firearm from people?

I can imagine and even understand a possible line of logic behind that, but it does seem *** backwards to me.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-01-12 19:01, Living Illusions wrote:
Arizona's law is concealed carry with no permit....open carry with permit.

If you're in Arizona carrying a concealed gun with no permit to carry it openly, and you pull it out to use it (say, to defend yourself), have you violated the open carry law now that it's in the open?
Pakar Ilusi
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On 2011-01-12 19:15, balducci wrote:
So you need a permit to DISPLAY that you are carrying a firearm in Arizona?

But NO permit is required if you want to conceal the fact that you are carrying a firearm from people?

I can imagine and even understand a possible line of logic behind that, but it does seem *** backwards to me.


Yup, that one has always seemed odd to me. Seems like backwards logic.
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MagicSanta
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With no desrespect to Kevin Arizona does not require an open carry permit. Some have tried to get it passed but with a few exceptions you can open carry in the state. Open being exposed or partially exposed. They have lifted the restrictions on concealed carry again with some exceptions (such as you cannot go into a bar or restaurant without a permit). You cannot take weapons everywhere you want, you must answer honestly if an officer asks if you have a weapon, if a place says no guns then there are no guns allowed, no guns on college campuses, and so forth.

Note that laws change and they may have changed open carry but being Arizona I doubt it.
Kevin Ridgeway
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MagicSanta...thanks for pointing that out. While one can carry without a permit, there are certain advantages that come with the permit. I should have been more precise.

Kevin
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MagicSanta
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That is correct....

In my area I'm likely the ONLY one not carrying a gun (weapon? Yes...). If you see someone walking a dog, other than me, they have a gun in case a coyote or rattle snake visits. I can't shoot 'em but I am equipped to beat and skin' 'em.
Scott Cram
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As I write this,the president is speaking at the memorial.

Boy, he's really got the crowd standing and cheering. The free t-shirts with the custom designed event logo is an interesting touch. Maybe more merchandise with the logo will be on sale after the memorial, or perhaps Oprah will make a surprise appearance and give free gifts to the people in the audience. Smile
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-01-12 15:28, Scott Cram wrote:
OMG! Sarah Palin said "Blood libel"! Oh NOEZ! (She's been reminded that she should only use Democrat-approved tactics, such as referring to political opponents as "Hitler".)

It gets worse! Sarah Palin turned me into a newt! (I got better.)


I agree Scott it's no big deal. Just pretty narcissistic, making herself out to be the victim. But no biggee as far as I'm concerned.
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