I see LOTS here about "provide solutions" or what sort of "experience" in this or that guys can offer a client. I have to say from the other side of this equasion, there are PLENTY of clients who are not in need of solutions or experience or what not. They just want someone to show up, do the show, cash the check and shut up.

Fact is that not everyone is in need of such things. Many clients are just in need of a show to fill the time. THAT is the solution for them. It gets annoying when you are being pushed different services.

All I am saying is know when to stop. It can cost you if you don't.

I believe that is a really poor way at looking at filling your clients needs. It is not pushing, if they don't need it they will tell you.

It is a way to look at the classic statement, "If they knew what you knew". They would be inlighted to your solutions.

Everyone wants value for there dollar, if you are not providing any value to them, then you will never hear from them again, and they will definately, not refer you to anyone.

To your way of thinking, they don't need live entertainment at all. Your job is to lift their event to a better level then if you were not there.

I think that sometimes performers try to sell a prospect, when it isn't necessary. There are some that called you, ready to buy. You can talk yourself out of a sale (over-selling), if you don't help them get what they want. What they want is to get the booking done with, and not have a long conversation. In that case, the best solution might be to book the show first and give them a little bit of info afterwards (to reinforce their decision, so they don't get buyer's remorse).

Pay attention for signals.

Each prospect is not the same.

- Donald

EXACTLY what I am talking about. EXACTLY what can cost people jobs. Thank you for pointing it out so well.

In some instances your job is to show up and do the show. PERIOD. I don't know where you get that my way of thinking means no live entertainment, but whatever helps you sleep.

As Donald points out many people show up an educated consumer and do not want further upselling NO MATTER WHAT THE STUPID COURSES IN MAGIC SALES SAY! You can talk yourself right out of a sale, Donald is right.

Always being on the sell is annoying to an educated buyer. An educated buyer is someone you want to deal with.

Hey do what you want, sell sell sell and never stop. I am just telling you what it looks like from the point of view of someone you are selling TO. That is a perspective some may or may not want to consider.

I agree Danny. One of the biggest problems that we all hear about in magic is not selling ourselves enough. On the other hand, many magicians (and salespeople in general) don't really know when to shut up. Once you think made the sell, LET IT BE. Anything more is basically self-indulgent and just cheapens your value in the buyer's eye.

I do think, however, that one must reach a certain level before this happens. When magicians are being called as a commodity (i.e., the buyer thinks that many may be able to solve their "problem"), it takes more of a sale. But when the big corporate clients call, and they've already seen what you offer through your website or the referral of a friend, it often just boils down to $$ and to whether or not your show fits their time schedule.

Yep that is true. It should also say something about not wanting to be a "commodity" in the first place. Seriously why be such a thing? You may get more phone calls, but how productive are they?

As a rule the client know best what they want you to do, and doing it their way (even if you may know better) is best. The concept of being Mr Know it all is just a lot of marketing guru baloney.

I usually ask when was the last time they had a magician which (as most of you know) helps the conversation immensely.

Yes Jay
I ask them "when was the last time you had a magician too", and after they give me their answer I tell them to "call me four your next affair" BUDDA BOOM

Thank you for summing up my point is a couple of sentences.

As far as I know, THAT is what the you guys are calling 'the gurus' (who ever they may be… hehehe) tell us to do anyway... ”Find Out what They Want and Give Them What THEY Want!”

How is that any different that what we all have been doing and learning?

Deano you ever been on the other end of that equasion? It is a pain in the but. I am not talking about what "gurus" are saying, I am talking about what people end up doing with what they hear. Big difference.

Deano
You are presuposing that they want to know your opinion. Most of the jobs that I get the client tells me "first we have dinner, then a 45 minute magic show, and then the DJ, any questions?". Then I get a glass of water, sit down, wait for my Q, and if they have any class they offer me dinner.

=> Hey brother Danny!
OF Course I have been on ALL sides of the equation. Talent, Buyer, Agent, Event Producer, Representative on every side of the equation... etc and it boils down to the exact same thing we ALL are saying here and that it's NOT new or different. "Give Them What THEY Want". No biggy, just the same ol’ thing is all.

Now I AGREE “not” everyone 'does that' but not a new idea or in any way juxtaposed to what anyone I know is really saying here or in the past... that’s all. – As far as I can tell we are simply saying the just about same thing. - - The ONLY thing I am suggesting that is 'different' is that it is NOT a unique idea as it is being offered here… nothing more.

More over, it is common sense… “LISTEN and DELIVER”! (if you can…) If you can’t, DON’T) Pretty simple really.

Am I missing something?

=> AL:
WHERE in the world did you come to that conclusion brother? (Ha!) NOWHERE in my post or share do I presuppose anything of the kind??? (hehehehehe…)

How is “Give Them What They WANT” presupposing anything but what I said in agreement with the conversation??? Or that I even have an ‘opinion’ or a ‘vote’ in the process?? (Unless they ASK… which lots of times they DO, but you are right, not always so do what you are hired to do… duh!) If THAT is what SERVES Them… so do it.

Simple AND obvious!

I realize it may not be all that ‘easy’… but it IS that obvious and everyone I know is pretty much saying the same thing for decades, cuz it is common sense!

Simply Put:
“Find Out What they Want, Need, Desire & Deserve and ‘if you can’ Give It To Them”!

SERVE THEM at the level THEY Want To Be SERVED!
= IF they want your experienced professional input… do so.
= If Not… no need.

Simple, eh’? - - Isn’t that what we are saying? It sure isn’t ‘evil’ to serve them as they request and require is it?

Funny stuff…

I am at your service and In HIS Service,
Dean
<><

Deano I am telling you that I have had a HUGE number of guys listening to whoever the what not that don't manage to know when to stop selling. They simply don't know when to say when.

As for "Unique idea" well where did I claim it was? I didn't say it was unique did I? Where is ANYTHING you post "unique"? It isn't. It is all rehashed customer service advice but you still post it don't you? I don't understand the problem.

Not disagreeing... I get it. All this is true of LIFE as well. Lots don't know when to say 'when' and sell them self right OUT of a gig. (or what ever) Some… not a huge number though.

I agree it's not a unique idea as well... no big deal. I must have misunderstood the REASON for posting it I guess. I got the impression that it was posted as if it was a revelation of a new idea or something... my bad.

My apologies for misunderstanding brother Danny. – Party On Bud!

‘When’,
Dean
<><

It was posted to get guys to know when to back off.

Y'know, the Café is a funny place. You've got guys here who bring in 300,000 dollars a year and guys who annoy the crap out of their office-mates with their D'Lites 3 times a week.....and all points in between the two! I fall roughly in the middle (closer to Mr. Annoying, truth-be-told!!).
One thing I'll say about 94 percent of the magicians I've met: They don't know when to stop.....in any way, shape form or fashion.

This reminds me of a marketing podcast I ran across on iTunes the other day. The hosts were discussing legitimate email marketing versus spam ... and the gist of the conversation was that as marketers we see what we're doing from a perspective that doesn't always take into conideration the experience of our clients or recipients.

We may think we're perfectly within the bounds of reason to send what we believe are relevant messages, but it's really the client themselves that determine what's relevant. For instance, if you've just bought tires, it doesn't matter that you drive a car, a marketing message about new tires is not relevant. So to Danny's point, if you know what you want in an entertainer - it doesn't matter that he can give you a break on his fee for an extra hour of walk-around at the cock-tail party.

Give the lady what she wants.

Oscar

Sadly, some people still fall for this stuff because they don't know any better.
A true story: My roommate's grandfather took his car in to get the oil changed a few years ago. You know how those places work...you need to fix this, you need to replace that, it's all one big deal to sell as much as possible, when all you wanted was the freaking oil change. How did it turn out for the grandfather? They ended up selling him a whole new car. And get this - he still paid for the oil change.

I'm getting a master's degree in business at the moment, so I'm knee-deep in marketing and sales materials. One thing I'm seeing is there's a difference between selling what the customer wants, and selling what YOU want. It's the people that aim for the latter that should be put out of business. Don't sell them all the extras because you want to make more money. Do it because it's what the customer legitimately needs.