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mindpunisher
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Ant so you admit then you can't induce proper amnesia without an induction? It seems to me you can call anything you want what you want and use the "performce purposes" as the lame excuse?

You can fake hypnosis for performance puropses it doesn't make it hypnosis.

You haven't answered my question. What do you get out of hypno ATTACKS... Why would anyone put themselves out there with no insurance, no show, ignore safety guidlines potentially break the law, put members of the public at risk, for no payment?

I really would love to understand what motivates you. Otherwise I don't think you are qualified to judge whether anyone has lost the plot.
bobser
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I agree Tony with your earlier post. But please understand that nobody has expressed a strong desire or actually WANT to do this. We're just answering the question: Yes, it IS possible.
Thanks for coming back Richard and yes, you've read it spot on, we are actually all in agreement. This whole thread would have been over in 3 posts if 2 of our members weren't numpties.

Zerbubble I've only just realised who you are. Nice to meet you James. I have your excellent work and have enjoyed watching your mastery. I also learned stuff from it. And you of course have my money! But worth every penny. Thankyou.

Anthony Jacquin you are a prince among men and shouldn't really be here, with your silver rapier of a mind, slashing poor MP to shreds. Proving that he said something completely different in the distant past (well, actually, one day ago), is that really fair? Huh? Just cause you remember what he said and he can't, even when he reads it, over and over and over? Is that fair?

Anyway, it's been enjoyable but as far as this thread goes I'm going to kick the dust from my heels and move on.
I think if we have learned anything in this one it's that:
Whilst imagination might be more powerful than knowledge, It's definitely far FAR more powerful than Laurel & Hardy.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
RSD
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I think I must have been under a rock for a few years. Can someone please explain to me why a profesional hypnotist/entertainer would walk up to to 100 people and try to put them under, knowing the success rate is 3%? How is this condusive to your career? How do you get paid to do such a thing? Hoq do you make a living this way? I am very curious.

These questions are coming from someone who did not pick up a book on stage hypnosis for 5 bucks and do a show within a week. I would take a $1000 bet on something like that successfully occuring too.
bobser
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NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Shane Masters
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[/quote]

Clearly you are missing something. We are talking about doing this without an induction are we not? Can YOU give someone name amnesia without doing an induction MP?

Anthony
[/quote]

You would be surprised with what you can get accomplished with a steel pipe.-Shane
The Cerebral Assassin
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On 2011-01-17 07:53, bobser wrote:
I agree Tony with your earlier post. But please understand that nobody has expressed a strong desire or actually WANT to do this. We're just answering the question: Yes, it IS possible.

Fair enough. I concede it is possible.
bobser
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I love you Tony and take back every nasty twisted childish thing I said about you earlier. Forgive me.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Shane Masters
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In all seriousness, stepping in and out from the core of this debate, I have Richard's and John's Speedtrance DVD. It is a good DVD and I do HIGHLY recommend it if you are into the speed induction techniques. Here is my personal experience with this type of technique and what I have experienced with the following caveat(s):

For stage showmanship, it has no usefulness to me and the way I run my routine. I have used speed techniques in my show when I had to, however, I like to keep the "mysterious" side to my show, so I still use the old " tried and true " fixation methods.

The arm pull method does not require as much effort as you think. I seen the videos with other guys doing this and in my experience, most of them pull way to hard.

I am not going to use exact techincal terms or explain everything to the minute detail. As you are hypnotists yourselves, you should be able to fill in the blanks.

So, with no further ado.....

In this section, please keep in mind, there were people there that seen me perform before. They had not been hypnotized before, but, they seen me do it ( fixation method ). In my own opinion, if they seen it and they believe it, they have allowed themselves to be open to the moment......they have made themselves "warm potatoes". This, in my own personal opinion, elevates your success rate tremendously.

Private party, some magicians, me and average people. I think I sat 6 people down in a chair....well, a chair each... I couldn't fit 6 people in one chair. I explained to them what was going to happen and what to expect. I then started them with deep breathing on my count to get an early complience. I perform Richard's Butterfly technique and his Blossom technique......can not remember in what order or how many times of each. That's irrelevent. Out of the 6 people, 4 went with no problem. Let the other 2 go. Out of the 4, 3 were good performers, the other was body count.

On another evening, a friend throws a party with quite a few guests. We agree I show up and get to drink high dollar scotch...that stuff with a blue label. He told people there was going to be a hypnotist there for fun. I wanted to try something for curiosity's sake. I asked him if there were any guests with medical issues he knows of and filled him in on my plan. Believe it or not, one lady, who is an avid bowler, keggling to my Euro brothers, just had her elbow scoped for arthritus. Imagine if I would have attempted this on her!! ( THIS IS WHY I HATE THESE INDUCTIONS ) I wait till quite a few people get there so what I am going to do is not so obvious. I stalk my prey like a lion waiting for the gazelle that breaks away from the pack. I walked up to 4 people randomly and extended my hand to attempt this technique. They had no idea I was the hypnotist. I can say, the success rate was 100% successful.......in the meaning that none of them went under.

Now to follow up on these four failures, I got some odd looks from the people I attempted this on. I then had to explain what I was attempting, who I was and make sure they understood I was not some weirdo......which I felt like after trying this crap with no positive success.

Now with those two small examples being laid before you, I ask " Why?". It does nothing for me.

Do I believe there are people who could befall to this? Yes. Do I believe it is risky to the health of the victim? Yes. Do I believe you would probably get your butt kicked by someone with a temper and disposition like mine? Definately. Do I feel the extremely low success rate of this is far outweighed by the small percentage of it actually working? No.

As said time and time again, just in this thread, " Why would you want to?" " Does it get your jollies off?". I have no Jedi ego that needs stroked.-Shane
The Cerebral Assassin
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-01-15 07:32, bobser wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-14 20:38, Dannydoyle wrote:
Bobser stop. The "probability" of such a thing is such that you have a better chance of being struck by lightening while winning the lottery. In other words minute at best.


Thankyou for the input Danny. I have to say, that in my experience, I disagree. In fact did it yesterday in a coffee shop. Although I can totally comprehend why you would find that impossible to believe.


Here is where the problems started Richard. Right in this last post by Bobser. I said that it was a MINUTE chance of success. Bobser then goes on to relate an ambush hypnosis situation at a coffee shop, and throws a sarcastic barb just to be a jerk. (his specialty as opposed to actual knowledge based debate.) He speaks here since he disagrees that it is a MINUTE chance it must be a larger chance. Ok so then 2 pages later he says 3 out of 100 or 3%. In my eyes that is a MINUTE chance. Mind you the whole time ol Bobser is acting the pompus fool and making grand pronouncements and such.

Another jumps in earlier with telling us history is speckled with people saying it is impossible and someone does it. More of a plattitude than an answer but oh well.

The problem is the delusions that people have. 3% is significant? Heck most times that is within the margin of error. (Look up the term Bobser and try to keep up.) Heck 3% could be considered a COINCIDENCE!

So when you go back and look at it simply we have Bobser starting fights and trying to cover up opening his mouth about something he is ignorant of.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Sorry that was a typo error. I meant to say 93%.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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No Bobser you even added your classic sarcastic barb at me when saying it. You spacificaly said out of 100 people it would work on 3, or 3%. Just to be a jerk you went and did the math for us to act pompus and superior. NO WAY it is a typo. You were so busy being pompus and sarcastic that you let your guard down and the truth actually slipped out. I hope they make this a sticky.

I still say you 3% "success" guys need your own forum. Should be called "hypnosis or coincidence?"

I hope the original poster and everyone who wants to think this stuff really works or is groundbreaking in some way was reading Bobsers post closely. We finally got him to admit the truth. I have to admit I never thought it would happen.

Oh wait Bobser let me guess, you were just "winding me up" LOL. Not hardly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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"Hypnosis or coincidence". I love it.
I am doing a show on Thursday night, and I want at least six co-incidents. But I'll play the odds, and use an induction.
Mindpro
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Whatever figures are being thrown out are just simply random made up figures anyway as no one has provided any proof or willing to accept Danny's challenge. This in an of itself proves the point.
mindpunisher
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>>>>This in an of itself proves the point. <<

Which point is that? That sreet/impromtu "hypnotists" are space cadets?
bobser
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Ok, look it's been fun but we're grown-ups yeah? Someone has to offer the hand of friendship so it might as well be me. Let's end this nonsense now and seek decent debate. Agreed?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Zerububle
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Sadly there is no debate. Until certain individuals can see past their belief that street hypnosis (as defined as aggressive egotistical attacks on passing innocents) is different to street hypnosis (as defined as impromptu performances of hypnotic suggestion carried out with concenting individuals for the purpose of growth, personal and business) we are unlikely to make any headway. Until it is understood that well trained, knowledgeable hypnotists/therapist can and do gain a benefit from ethical impromptu interactions (distinctly different from the first definition of SH), and that it is foolish to tarnish everyone with the same brush, it is very unlikely that this topic will ever reach a beneficial outcome.

Personally I can't stand the vast majority of stage hypnosis formats I have seen. I question the ethics in a great deal of stage hypnosis skits. I would however refrain from suggesting that a) any of the stage hypnotist here are in any way guilty of such abuses, and b) that anyone should stop doing them.

While there are no doubt a few street hypnotists (see YouTube for details) who devalue the art as it where, I am equally certain that Stage Hypnosis is not immune to the problem.

As the proof is so often in the pudding, so to speak, why don't we all get to gather in 10 years time having fully explored our own ways of doing things. Then we can, if required, all measure our man hoods to see who's winning.

Alternatively we could just accept that there may be other ways to do what we so loosely and inexplicably call hypnosis.

James Brown
mindpunisher
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In 10 years I predict you won't be running around ambushing people in bars. You will have grown up. Apart from Bobser who will still be doing it in his wheel chair in his 80s. But if you see him don't push him it will just encourage him

I think you will have outgrown your need to measure your manhood too.
bobser
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Hey MP, I know that was just some light-hearted banter and you're really slapping me on the shoulder in a friendly gesture in order to strengthen our new-found bond. Wow, y'see, now this is great? Now what about my pal from Branson? Is he popping in to say "Hi?"

hugs.......
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
dmkraig
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Zerububle, while I agree with you that the basis is a different approach to the nature of street hypnosis, I have to respectfully disagree with your presentation. First, your two sides are like "Either you love puppies or you want to put them under the wheels of your SUV and grind them into paste." I think there are a lot more options available!

I have no complaint or disagreement with those who want to do impromptu hypnosis. I, too, have Richard's and John's Speedtrance DVD. Although it is a good set and I recommend it, I regrettably can't give it as high a recommendation as Shane. As I have often posted here, I also recommend live trainings (in preference to books and DVDs), although books and DVDs make great adjuncts to live trainings. Putting my actions in play, I also took a full in-person training in impromptu and speed hypnosis, part of which required us to go out on the street and do it.

There were several people in the class who already did impromptu hypnosis. Not one, including the trainer, could respond to a simple question: How do you monetize impromptu hypnosis? What value is it. It's not like impromptu magic where you can pass a hat after doing a few effects. The best response I got was that it could work as advertising for a live show. I pointed out that you would reach very few potential audience members and got not response.

So my personal disagreement with impromptu hypnosis (other than with idiot who will harm people because they're not trained and just saw a video on You Tube) is that I just don't see any value in it. It comes off like an attempt at pre-pubescent bullying: See what I can do? I can make you look like a fool with your hand stuck to a trash can.

However, I'm always willing to learn. Could I trouble you to explain, explicitly, how impromptu street hypnosis can be used for "the purpose of growth, personal and business?" How does a person get personal growth from standing with his hand stuck to a wall? How does a person get business growth by having his hand stuck to his forehead? And other than for childish "Look what I can do!" egotism, what does the hypnotist actually get out of this? Is there something you do when you go out on the street that somehow improves a person's life? If so, what is it, please? I just haven't seen any indication of that and I'd really like to know.

Thanks in advance.
Zerububle
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Dm- I excuse my glib tone. I wasnt suggesting the two extremes were the only possibilities. Merely that there were possibilities!

Re benefits:

Over the past ten years I have performed 'off the cuff' more times than I can possibly recount. In bars, shops, restaurants, street corners, bus stops etc etc. While none of these have been for money they have made me plenty. Each encounter affords the opportunity to perform. While the person involved directly or those watching may not require my services any time soon they will no doubt know someone who does. A health proportion of my business has come and still does from these initial impromptu performances. The key, I have always found, is to make the moments seem genuinely 'off the cuff' and wherever possible 'their idea'.

While I appreciate that this method may not be comfortable for some or even sit well with a stage hypnotists persona, may I remind folks that I am not a rage hypnotist nor profess to be one and this method not only sits comfortably with me as a way of promotion but also works, rather bloomin' well

JB
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