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mindpunisher
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On 2011-01-17 18:40, quicknotist wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-17 17:15, mindpunisher wrote:
And no one here can see the potential problems or dangers? And we encourage complete newbies to hypnotise others without even knowing what they are doing? Not only that we help them.

Geeze this place is an asylum.

It's a dilemma.



If nobody helps them, they're out there doing it without any guidance.


You honestly think you are helping them? Just read this thread look at all the complicated concepts advised? You think you can learn them from this thread? No of course you can't. All you are doing is encouraging them to have more botched attempts. To be honest I don't think most of you really understand half the concepts you are trying to advise about. I see more and more bad advice on this forum as each week passes.

You think encouraging someone to "freak out" more people is helping them? I just don't get it why you can't see the obvious problems and danger in doing so?

You can't learn hypnosis from a forum and you shouldn't be telling newbie's to just go out there and have a bash. ITS WRONG TO FREAK PEOPLE OUT WITH HYPNOSIS - IT ALSO POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS IF YOU HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

If none of you can see that then as Mindpro says you aren't my peers. You need to go and do more studying yourselves from those that know what they are talking about instead of watching a few DVDs from a dodgy source and thinking you know everything.


>>>>Lol I have viewed many post in the Café and being primarily a magician I am usually in the "workers" forum.<<<

And here lies the roots of the problem. Magicians should stick to magic. Hypnosis is NOT a trick. And that's where the camp lies. Magicians and hypnotists. Just because you watch a few dvds rename ancient concepts and believe you have created something new doesn't make you a hypnotist. It makes you just another arrogant magician that thinks they know everything.

But in this case the outcome of your arrogance could lead to someone getting seriously hurt.

On the other side of the coin would we give instruction on the mentalist forom or the magicains forum of how to do effects or tricks? No we would point them in the right direction. Unfortunately the right direction on here is not so easy to find due to the new crop of unskilled attention seekers releasing dvds and running pretty rubbish training courses. Is it the same desparate motivation for a feeling of importance that is driving those willing to dish out "advice" at every opportunity.

It might make you feel good; it might even fool the pure newbies into thinking you are great. But to those of us that are experienced you look and sound like hacks you are.
mindpunisher
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On 2011-01-18 19:02, bobser wrote:
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On 2011-01-18 17:35, DaiMagic wrote:


There is a very different feel hear. There appears to be 2 camps.
One which understand that know one starts out "Enlightened" and able to master things instantly, they are willing to give constructive criticism and offer fair advice.
The others seem to think that "newbies" should just STOP now and leave it to the elite. They do not provide answers only more questions.


Hey DaiMagic, welcome. Unfortunately you're spot on. But the good guys always win in the end. And the bad guys? Well they don't actually KNOW their bad. As you rightly said, they simply believe their the elite.


Bobser I don't know about elite - but from some of your posts on here recently you should be trying to get as much real knowledge as you possibly can because you've shown you lack a lot.

I think the problem is with magicians trying to learn hypnosis is they are used to buying packet tricks to be the life and soul of the party. Unfortunately that is holding them back and damaging hypnosis.
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2011-01-18 17:35, DaiMagic wrote:
Lol I have viewed many post in the Café and being primarily a magician I am usually in the "workers" forum.

There is a very different feel hear. There appears to be 2 camps.

One which understand that know one starts out "Enlightened" and able to master things instantly, they are willing to give constructive criticism and offer fair advice.

The others seem to think that "newbies" should just STOP now and leave it to the elite. They do not provide answers only more questions.

I will get more training in hypnosis to add to what I already know, and again I thank you guys for the advice.


Dal, the problem begins here with people who have attitudes like you.
With only a couple of exceptions, I can't think of any of the trained experts here consider themselves "enlightened." Your attempt of some people to do this, as you appear to be trying to do, is usually just a sign of egotism.
Secondly, you assume that because there are hypnotists and magicians kin the Café, they're basically doing the same thing. Yes, they're both entertaining, but a magician can sit in a room and practice by himself for hours at a time. A magician can practice with boxes and gaffed coins. He doesn't have to know a French Drop to do an Elmsley Count.

With hypnosis, you can't sit in your mom's basement practicing for hours by yourself. The ONLY way to practice is by hypnotizing someone. People ask, time and again, why when they hypnotized someone they didn't get the desired response. Well, with hypnosis, there are dozens, if not hundreds of possible reasons for that.

What some of these people are doing is watching someone on YouTube, then slapping wheels on the bottom of a 2 x 4 and trying to thrash and get air on a half-pipe. What they'll probably do is get bruises or break their arms. With hypnosis, following the same model, they're likely to either fail or screw someone up.

You have presented the attitude that there are "enlightened" ones here who refuse to give you free training and information by simply answering your questions. That's a stuck-up, egotistical attitude on your part, not on the part of the people here. I can't speak for others here, but I'd LOVE to see you and every other person who thinks their entitled to learn things as they imagine it should be actually learn to be effective, talented hypnotists. We're not "enlightened" and trying to keep "THE SECRETS" from you. We want to see you trained and capable.

Dude, we're on your side! We want you to succeed. We want you to become a good hypnotist.

Now, imagine someone comes up to you and says, "Tell me how to surf the big waves in Hawaii."
You, being an expert surfer dude, say, "Okay. First, get a surfboard. Then practice on the sand. I'll watch and make sure your form is correct. Then we'll go out where there are some mild waves and you'll practice just catching waves while you're kneeling on the board..."
"No!!" says your questioner. "I don't want to get a surfboard. I don't want to practice on the sand. I don't want to practice with small waves. You're nothing but an elitist snob because you won't tell me what I want. You think you're one of the "enlightened" big wave surfers and won't give us information. I usually hang out with guys who play marbles and we're nothing like that."

Do you understand? Here you are, trying to help someone and they not only refuse to take your help, they insult you for offering it.

So here we are, willing to help you. We can tell you what you need to do to get started. I'm sorry if you don't want to hear it, my friend, but before you can learn to surf you've gotta buy a surf board.
mindpunisher
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>>>You think you're one of the "enlightened" big wave surfers and won't give us information. I usually hang out with guys who play marbles and we're nothing like that."<<<

Unfortunately there is a hardcore on here that hang out regularly with each other but have lost their marbles.

On a serious note: Has no one given thought to the victims on the end of these botched attempts?

Its also refreshing to see Craig actually admitting that people can be scewed up.
Dannydoyle
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The children are drawn to the quick "solutions" and those solutions are nonsense. The quick buck artists are really a problem. Quicknotist, Richard Nongard, don't fall into that category.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Shane Masters
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I got a book coming out next week.....okay....well, not a book.....its more like a pamphlet........alright.....its just a couple pages...but, hey.....gotta pay the bills.-Shane
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DaiMagic
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Wow this seems to have touched a nerve.

I am not a magician trying to learn a new trick. I am a Person trying to learn a new skill. I am not a foolish teenager who has watched a couple of youtube videos and think I know it all.

Although I do have a room full of packet tricks and gaffed stuff that every magician collects over the years I also have Thousands of £ worth of books and literature, and regularly perform in a professional capacity.

Research, yes. Done
Study, yes. Done
Practise, maybe. Perhaps I should do more of the above first.

Anyway rather than turn this into another massive thread on the dangers of hypnosis I will refrain from taken the bait.

I mean to offend no one and apologisee if I have, thanks for the advice.

FIN.
bobser
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Ouch DaiMagic. That was a full head on challenge from three prop forwards there. Thank God you had enough sense to side-step it all (albeit I do get much of what dmckaig said). But you'll be fine. Hopefully we'll talk soon.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-01-18 17:35, DaiMagic wrote:
Lol I have viewed many post in the Café and being primarily a magician I am usually in the "workers" forum.

There is a very different feel hear. There appears to be 2 camps.

One which understand that know one starts out "Enlightened" and able to master things instantly, they are willing to give constructive criticism and offer fair advice.

The others seem to think that "newbies" should just STOP now and leave it to the elite. They do not provide answers only more questions.

I will get more training in hypnosis to add to what I already know, and again I thank you guys for the advice.


NOBODY has said new people should just stop. You have put up a lie plain ans simple. Oh and here is a secret for you. GOOD RESEARCH ALWAYS LEADS TO MORE QUESTIONS!

Now tell me what exactly do you consider "constructive criticism"? Something that confirms your opinion or something that is going to help you?

What do you consider fair advice? You want information so someone just gives it to you? Not as "fair" as it may seem.

You know there is a passage in Zen and the Art of Archery about why the master won't just tell the student what to do. "Why would I deprive you the pleasure of learning"? Seems as if you learn more by being guided than told.

2 camps, yea there are. Just nowhere near as you have defined them.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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[quote]On 2011-01-19 10:10, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
You know there is a passage in Zen and the Art of Archery about why the master won't just tell the student what to do. "Why would I deprive you the pleasure of learning"?


Jeeeeez, talk about delusions of grandeur! We're next door to a Zen Master now are we?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Where did I say that Bobser? I know you just want to attack to be a jerk but show me where I said that please. I simply quoted from a book and pointed out that a very established way to learn is by your own search.

Now go ahead attack again. Or better yet grow up and get over whatever problem it is you seem to have and be constructive.

Just because you can't comprehend a concept, don't let it frustrate you into attacking all the time. It probably accounts for your lack of knowledge. (See I can attack to in a passive aggressive pansy sort of way, but what did it accomplish in the end? NOTHING so lets just put an end to it ok and act like a big boy.)
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Ok sorry.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Seriously?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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Yeah, seriously.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Cool.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
JonChase
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Bobser ;-) Perfect!
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Jon Chase



http://jonathanchase.com
bobser
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I know. Interesting to see how it takes another Jedi master to recognise Jedi work.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Dannydoyle
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Yea I never noticed you acting like a nit on other threads. Yep went right past me. This must be what you mean by a "real hypnotist" I guess. Seems to me the only one in trance is YOU.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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What was that all about?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
JonChase
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I think it's the Yoda syndrome bob. They hear but do they understand? And if they did can they use the language. A zap would be useful would it not?
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Jon Chase



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