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David Numen Inner circle 2076 Posts 
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On 2011-01-19 08:28, EscapeMaster wrote: I am intrigued why it would bother you? If you come up with your own move and other people say it's new and innovative WITHOUT being derivative or similar to Acidus Novus then it wouldn't be a problem. If you come up with a move that IS derivative of Acidus Novus then it's probably better that you DON'T publish - there have been many, many variations and I think between the Acidus Novus CD, Allain Bellon's Obsidian Oblique and Richard Busch's Peek Encores I don't think there's really any room left to develop AN further. The final alternative is that you have a routine that uses a peek and you want to publish the routine. Easy, just do what I and many others have done and REFER to the peek you use and send people in the right direction. One final point on the matter - Millard literally gave the peek away on a forum I used to be a member of...it wasn't even a top secret, invitation only forum, it was Kenton Knepper's Wonder Wizards forum. I think he has, over the years, been more than generous with the peek and I fail to understand why anyone would have a problem with his requirements. If you know the peek, if you've seen the CD and have an idea what's in the other sources I mentioned I think you'd find it hard to come up with anything that hasn't already been done. |
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boydy Special user Ayrshire, Scotland 881 Posts
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I bought my copy of Acidus Novus on Ebay. How would this work as I never bought from the mevpro shop. It came with the original receipt though from mevpro....
I have since re sold it. |
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts
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On 2011-01-18 22:28, edh wrote: Goggle translation: Since I don't want to be creative, I must use the creations of real creators. If I credit them, they should feel flattered to be mentioned by humble and creative me. *jeep! and God Bless! --Grandpa
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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Since these are social rather than legal rules - there is really only one way to change things... do what you feel is right. Creators certainly deserve the ability to commercially exploit genuine innovations that they make. In my mind, the more significant and revolutionary the innovation the longer the period their exclusive control should last. Should it last 32 years - even for significant innovations? Probably never. After 32 years any serious (as opposed to straight rip off) modification can be published with only a reference - at least as far as I'm concerned.
Of course it is not in the interest of big names (and their cheerleaders) to accept such an obvious point just as it isn't in the interests of rip-off merchants to accept that ANY level of exclusivity should be afforded to creators. It doesn't take a genius (or even Goggle) to proclaim anyone who doesn't with to afford lifetime of longer protections to even minor innovations as a lazy theif with bad case of the entitlement syndrome. Personally I'm better practiced as characterising some creators as self obsessed ego maniacs, determined to preserve their position that has only partially been arrived at through talent by witholding permissions for their own innovations while being happy enough to include the work of others that have gone before them in their own publications. Creators deserve fair reward for their contributions to the art - but it must always be remembered that contributions are what they are - and any reward must be proportionate and not at the expense of the artforms further development decades down the line.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Reuben Dunn Inner circle Has a purple ribbon wraped around my 1592 Posts
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I'm a bit puzzled at this desire to avoid giving credit where credit is due; to follow the standards of decent moral honest conduct.
I'm also amazed at the desire of many here, apparently, to publish a routine on peaks. Is there that large of a demand in the "community" for such works? BTY, who or what is this "community" that would decide how long the creator or an effect has on exclusivity? Manners is Manners. Honesty is Honesty. If I am asked to follow six rather unoffensive steps before publishing, then what on earth is the problem? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts
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Reuben and Chet-
Well said. What amazes me is that so many either don't understand,or simply choose to ignore, what is basically just fairness and good manners. Best- Bob |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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Quote:
decent moral honest conduct. Quote:
Manners is Manners. Honesty is Honesty. Quote:
just fairness and good manners. Throwing around feel good words doesn't really pin down the issue does it. Fair, moral, honest conduct (with a splattering of good manners) goes in both directions and can mean vastly different things to different people. Those advocating complete and indefinate creator control and those proposing zero are both way off the mark imo. Quote:
BTY, who or what is this "community" that would decide how long the creator or an effect has on exclusivity? The community is not a monolithic actor. My previous post encouraged people to make an assesement of the issue themselves and act accordingly - whether that be to publish, to buy, to complain or to ostracise. At the aggregate level justice is likely to prevail - those reusing ideas in legitimate manners giving proper regard to the age and novelty of the original innovation and extent of variation/improvment their new publication provides won't have a problem (apart from with nutjobs that can be ignored and ridiculed). Rip-off merchants will be near universally criticised and ostracised (and ridiculed).
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts
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Gee, so "decent," "moral," "honest," "manners," and "honesty" are dirty words to Davit?
*jeep! and God Bless! --Grandpa
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Ah, c'mon - Davit was making sense.... he didn't say they were dirty words. He was saying - reap the consquences of your actions...I think.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Reuben Dunn Inner circle Has a purple ribbon wraped around my 1592 Posts
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On 2011-01-24 22:26, Davit Sicseek wrote: My friend, I'm a bit old fashioned I suppose. I was brought up by parents who did their best to instill in me a sense of decency, honesty, and a moral compass that tended to keep me out of trouble. Time spent in the military 30 years ago re-enforced that character trait in me. I can assure you, Those words, nor the sentiment behind them were not thrown around in order to make me, you , Bob Cassidy, or the creator of what is perhaps the most famous and important peak. Those who justify deception, and, to an extent theft, are "way off the mark imo." |
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Reuben Dunn Inner circle Has a purple ribbon wraped around my 1592 Posts
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Quote: On 2011-01-27 09:07, Reuben Dunn wrote: |
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Reuben Dunn Inner circle Has a purple ribbon wraped around my 1592 Posts
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[quote]On 2011-01-27 09:08, Reuben Dunn wrote:
[quote]On 2011-01-27 09:07, Reuben Dunn wrote: Quote:
On 2011-01-24 22:26, Davit Sicseek wrote: My friend, I'm a bit old fashioned I suppose. I was brought up by parents who did their best to instill in me a sense of decency, honesty, and a moral compass that tended to keep me out of trouble. Time spent in the military 30 years ago re-enforced that character trait in me. I can assure you, Those words, nor the sentiment behind them were not thrown around in order to make me, you , Bob Cassidy, or the creator of what is perhaps the most famous and important peak, "feel good". Those who justify deception, and, to an extent theft, are "way off the mark imo." |
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Reuben Dunn Inner circle Has a purple ribbon wraped around my 1592 Posts
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Sorry for the repeats. The delete function here on this page is non-functional.
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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Reuben, I'm sure that you are being honest in what your intention was - my point is not a criticism of your motives but just that those words are essentially meaningless for a significant part of this discussion.
I mean taking 'fairness' as the example - one may well say that it is fair for a creator to retain control of their contributions to the art for their lifetime + 50 years. Others may think this is unfair since they may deem that the contribution in some indirect way derived form elsewhere in the field, or that the contribution was not significant enough for it to be fair that they can control, profit from or inhibit the further development of the art. As you can see, taking just the word fairness, there are numerous interpretations of what fairness should mean in regards to this topic and I'm sure others could contibute other interpretations. I'm not passing judgement on which is the correct interpretation - but you have to appreciate that there may well be a legitimate difference of assesment. Hopefully this explains why I find some of the words being thrown around here are a little meaningless. Instead I think it's more benificial to consider the types of behaviour that we find acceptable within the mentalism community and the reasons why. Being 'fair' is not a reason as the meaning of 'fair' is so variable.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Chris K Inner circle 2544 Posts
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On 2011-01-19 01:39, EscapeMaster wrote: And you know that how exactly? I mean, if you were informed and knowledgable with the published material that is out there, maybe I'd agree with you. However your very first sentence is clearly demonstrative that you don't have the knowledge or background to even make your comment. I'll still answer your questions though. Quote:
On 2011-01-19 01:39, EscapeMaster wrote: Yes. Quote:
On 2011-01-19 01:39, EscapeMaster wrote:Say I ask a friend and he tells me that this IS Acidus Novus. My peek is definitely independent creation. Do I still have to buy a $150 to describe in my own manuscript something I came up with myself? People publish 'indepentally created' routines the whole time - just look at the switches in Switchcraft for instance. Several of them are described as being similar or identical to others in print. Again, yes. And furthermore, your Switchcraft reference is flawed (from Elliott's post above). This is one of the reasons Elliott is pretty universally seen as a good guy. Great products, great ethics. Quote:
On 2011-01-19 01:39, EscapeMaster wrote: Again, not to those with an actual background and knowledge of the subject matter. As for Davit, as usual, he's trying to argue semantics and play devil's advocate. Anybody who's created anything, or who respects how methodology is the basic unit of magic, has no problem with the original post, IMO. Lem |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Ah I figured it out!
Because the book is sold on MEVPRO, some people think its a BOR Pitch Book! They think the method of how to publish your routine is buy the book, and put your name on it, and sell it as your own creation to everybody 
Ok, it was a bad joke - but hey, what the heck.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Millard123 Regular user Millard Longman 174 Posts
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On 2011-01-27 16:13, Dr Spektor wrote: It may be a bad joke, but I laughed out loud when I read it! My wife thinks I have lost my mind. |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Heh, my wife thought that before I even got into the Mystery Arts
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » How to publish your routine using Acidus Novus (1 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jan 19, 2011 04:10 pm 
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