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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Impromptu Hypnotising the somnambulist FYI (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JonChase
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Let me tell you a story.

Back in 1998 I was at Pontins holiday camp in Camber Sands with my mentor who was performing his Red Indian knife throwing act. I was performing that night at a hotel near by and had popped round to meet up. Jay came off stage and we went into the Café at the side of the showroom for a coffee.

The girl behind the counter was about 18 years old at a guess and was just shutting up shop so we were the last two in the place. After a while she came over to us to get our cups and Jay just said, "Wait". He then put his hand with his finger up in the air about three inches from her nose just above her eye line and said, "See?" She nodded. He said, "Great. You want to see something amazing" She nodded again and then shook her self as if coming back from some reverie.

Jay took a few cards out of his briefcase and spread them on the table and invited her to sit down which she did. Obviously she knew he was a knife thrower but nothing else, and had no idea who I was.

Jay spread the cards and pointed to the middle of the Ace of diamonds and said, "Look in there. And notice. Makes your eyes stick doesn't it?" She nodded. He said, "Go in there then you know you want to go in there and you will wont you?"

There was a momentary confusion then she said, "Oh god." And her eyes closed and she was gone.

By this time three or four other staff were coming in off duty and naturally they came over. So Jay the eternal showman stuck her hand to the table, got her to forget her name and the number three.

At that point a young guy came in and sat next to me. He had an air of super curiosity and I could 'feel' his excitement of witnessing something unusual that he must have picked up from his co-workers. He asked what was going on in the same way one would talk in an excited whisper as Jay had just put the girl back under and was getting the usual expectant silence from the on lookers when you are working up close. Of course Jay milked this by 'shushing' them with a finger as he never missed a bloody trick and had heard the young guy and had also picked up on his expectancy.

I said, "Do you really want to know?" He said, "Yes?" and now, because Jay had stopped his little performance and I was the only one speaking, all eyes turned to our small world.

I aped my mentor with the finger up just above his eye level and said, "Watch." I held it there for a good 20 seconds moving it only very slightly from side to side and in that time he neither blinked nor took his eyes from my finger tip. I had complete eye fixation and therefore fascination and therefore hypnosis. So I tapped him on the forehead and said, "Sleep now!" an he went in right down, didn't even need deepening.

It was a very small impromptu show but double handed it worked well for the few staff members.

I don't know about anyone else or about other people's experience but in my direct, if anecdotal, experience it can be done simply because I have done it, and have seen others do it. I suspect it is as much to do with charisma and costume as anything else. I don't bother now but always used to dress like a stage hypnotist, and jay's long dark hair, pony tail and native American jewellery set him apart from the average Pontins punter. For My subject he also had the added prompt from seeing the girl obviously under, but he would have gone I have no doubt even without that.

If you think of yourself as a hypnotist, present yourself as a hypnotist whatever that is that makes you feel like one, and act like a hypnotist, then the somnambulists will go into trance before you do any sort of induction. All you have to do then is utilise their state, not create it.

Hope this helps someone.
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Jon Chase



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mindpunisher
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I don't doubt what you say. But what I don't get is the fascination with getting someone to close their eyes and go into "trance"?
The eye fixation for 20secs or so the word sleep then "utilization" are all really an induction. I still don't get why you would want to. And its not the same as 20 secs now you are a ballet dancer etc? That has to be well conditioned in.

Also somnabulists do have a choice mostly. I say mostly because I also believe there are a very small percentage who can't resist. But the majoriy if at a show for example can choose to take part or not. I also have members of my family who are somnabulists in fact any hypnotists dream. But if they don't want to they won't.

Its also possible to stick someones hand to a table or wall just by suggesting it if they are suggestable.

In my youth once anchored an orgasm to a lecturers knee after she asked me to take the communications class for an afternoon. All I had to do was look at her knee and she would have an orgasm. Funnily enough she started asking me to her room for coffee after that day. Which I declined because my other lecturer was her husband. I have to confess I learned most of my conversational hypnosis picking up women when I was younger. I have covertly hypnotised people over the phone installed reinduction keywords that were fired days later when we met up and in a public place. I have trained car sales people who have managed to get customers to forget about their budget and even the colour of the car they were looking for and buy something more expensive. I have trained charity workers who have moved a £250,000 donation to £1 million useing covert techniques and specific instructions etc etc.

I also have testimonials to prove it. They are all examples of covert impromtu hypnosis that actually have a point.
JonChase
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I don't get why card magicians do card tricks with cards either. Maybe it's because the audience expect that? Huh, you'd think they would know better wouldn't you? And there you go most hypnotised people expect to close their eyes, bit like the ones on your vids ey? Buggers aren't they?

I wrote a book on covert stuff. What has that got to do with stage hypnotism to enthrall and entertain people? Your marketing is showing LOL
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Jon Chase



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bobser
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But in your case Jon this was better than impromptu hypnosis.
This was as good as:
'Walking up to someone and without telling them you're a hypnotist or using the word hynosis, inducing trance'
We 'tried' to talk about this in another thread, pity you missed it.
Anyway, congratulations. For me it takes 'this stuff' to a different level which suggests that the best ones among us need to be investigating other things with it.
Stage hypnosis is fun but lets be honest, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.
But THIS form needs something else. I think you're right when you say charisma and costume come into it. Also inner belief and overly sized balls are handy. Lets agree it need a certain: 'je ne sais quoi'?

I also find it interesting when you tell such a story other people sometimes CLAIM they've done it also, but they weren't really paying attention to what you were saying. You are talking here of NOT saying you're a hypnotist and NOT talking about hypnotist.
The question from that other thread I was talking about was simply: 'Can it be done?'
You have answered that completely here. Sorted.
Great post.

Bob
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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What has impromtu got to do with stage hypnotism? Ive just been informed that the impromtu brigade are now reading minds for real? that's a big step from sticking a hand to a table!

You know jon I should be marketing myself more and selling products. One thing I have to admit you are very good at marketing. That is something I do admire about you. But I don't have any Hypnosis products to sell I am just trying to make a point.
mindpunisher
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Bob some of the examples I have mentioned didn't mention the word hypnosis esp with sales people. However the point I am trying to make is the obsession with getting someone to slump and do som basic hypnotic phenomena? What is the point? The examples I gave have solid outcomes with a huge amount of value attached to them. Surely that must be a better use and development? I really don't understand why you cream your pants over this. It really is a fetish eh?
JonChase
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Punisher, the point was we're entertainers entertaining. You know I was at a magic club once and in the bar after the meet some crazy magician showed a group of non magicians a trick he'd learnt in the lecture, the point was he wanted to test reaction, practice timing, and of course to entertain. For me impromptu performance is an opportunity to experiment without pressure. Covert influence and persuasion are neither hypnosis in the true sense of the word nor are they in the spirit of this forum. They certainly had nothing to do with my little story which was to illustrate and teach, so maybe not for those who already know everything. Oh and for the record my products are all based on first hand experience so I don't see your point?
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Jon Chase



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JonChase
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Bobser, I did see the topic but thought that my story would just get lost in the --- and hopefully it's benefited someone. If that's you then I'm well pleased.
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Jon Chase



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DaiMagic
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I can take something from it Jon.

I think the one of the reasons some people get so wound up about impromptu hypnosis is that learning the "hypnosis" part is not that hard. It seems now anyone can learn it and this seems to, in there eyes, de-value it somehow.

The reason people are so eager to get out and put people "under" is the curiosity aspect, the "i cant believe this is going to work".... when it does work, for the non hypnotist that has read some books and watched a few dvds its a great feeling. This then fires them to pursue the art and perhaps one day reach the ecclesiastical heights of "stage hypnotist". lol.
bobser
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DaiMagic you're spot on. You were suspected of being a newbie earlier (in a different thread)in a disparaging way.
First of all there's nothing wrong with newbie's, although I have a feeling that you're nothing like a newbie and pretty much know exactly what you're talking about. I think you're correct in that this stuff is easy to learn and yes anyone can do it. The difference is in the actual doing whereby we get to learn the intricate parts by actionizing! And as Jon Chase knows, as skilled as he is in stage, it's not all about stage.
I think it's tremendous that new guys can build the confidence to TRY hypnosis on strangers and should be heavily supported, not frowned upon and called names.
And as shown in Jon's initial post, it can be taken down many corridors. That's the great thing about discussion, showing, revealing and of course the main one...listening without making judgements based on lack of knowledge.

Regards,
Bob
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Zerububle
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It should be remembered that stage was merely a vehicle for hypnosis rather than hypnosis itself. For many years it has been assumed that you were either a stage hypnotist or a therapist (or both). It is wonderful that we can go full circle and see hypnosis as a tool for a myriad of uses. While we may not agree on specifics we should be wise enough not to decry what others do just because we don't like it. Jon sees street hypnosis as old hat because he 'used' to do it but is wise enough not to make it out as wrong.

On the subject of 'simple phenomena' - as I may have said before, as a magician I could concentrate on new material all the time but the audience loves the classics too. Not because they have seen them but because they haven't! While sticking someones hand to a table may not be rocket science it IS magical and entertaining

James Brown
mindpunisher
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The thing is James stage is just a context where hypnosis takes place. I just see myself as a hypnotist. I have no problem with your point in using light phenomena as entertaining. I do have a problem with caims of being able to hypnotise walking up to a stranger and saying sleep. So perhaps there is a problem over definition. My definition of a hypnotised person is where they are at a point where you can do just about anything with them yet they seem normal.

Even in jons story there was 20 secs or more eye fixation before the "slump". My mentor taught me that that was the pre induction. What followed leading to the wide awake hypnosis was a combination of induction and conditioning. No point in arguing over definitions but it is the one that I stick with.

I also have no problem with using old skits if they work with you. I am only pointing out that many of the "new" impromtu trend think they are doing something new and superior. They aren't.
Zerububle
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Fair enough. I am not suggesting anything particularly new either. It does seem odd that a few experienced hypnotists seem to think that instant induction is possible without pretalk. I for one am not willing to dismiss the possibility rather keep an open mind.
mindpunisher
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There is also debate of what induction is. Slumping forward with your eyes closed has always been a pre-induction not the induction itself in my vocabulary. It seems there are some on here that that is their main goal. It really has little value on itself.

I don't think its possible but would love t see a video of someone being hypnotsed by a suggestion alone.

Also the main part of the argument is not so much its not possible to hypnotise someone randomly without a pretalk more to do with that its against safety guidlines since there is no prescreening for psychological emotional problems;explaing to someone what your going to do and to give them the CHOICE of taking part.

And to encourage many on here with little or no training to go out and just have ago without ven being aware of those guidlines and why they were put there.

In short many impromtu force thrmselves on members of the public. And this notion of walking up to a stranger and shouting sleep is where its coming from. that's the beef.

But this is going around in circles if you want to believe impromtu is something new and superior then I guess they are your beliefs. Impromtu just like stage is only a context not different from each other. The only differences are between those that are doing it.

The main attration as I see it for the current trend is because its a shortcut, easier and cheaper option from learning hypnosis properly.
mindpunisher
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But that's it I'm finshed on this going to find something useful to do. This is going nowhere..
DaiMagic
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Are you sure.... lol only kidding. Its a fair point.
Zerububle
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All very interesting MP and agreeable but I can't find any mention from anyone to say that impromptu is in any way superior or new for that matter.
mindpunisher
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There have been a lot of posts James. There are quite a few in there amongst all the play fighting and bad advice.
JonChase
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Quote:
On 2011-01-23 09:08, mindpunisher wrote:
There is also debate of what induction is. Slumping forward with your eyes closed has always been a pre-induction not the induction itself in my vocabulary. It seems there are some on here that that is their main goal. It really has little value on itself.


If they go into hypnotisim,, or whatever they percieve to be hypnotism, at the comand of the hypnotist that is the acceptance of suggestion which must be the innduction. It can't be pre anything because it's happened.

Quote:
I don't think its possible but would love t see a video of someone being hypnotised by a suggestion alone.

I teach that everything you do as a hypnotist is a suggestion for the somnambulist and ergo every induction is the responce to suggestion so every one ever hypnotised is done by suggestion alone.
Suggestion: the process of inducing a thought, sensation, or action in a receptive person without using persuasion and without giving rise to reflection in the recipient. [Dictionary.com]

Please if you don't think you hypnotise with suggestion I'd be fascinated to find out what you do use?

Quote:
Also the main part of the argument is not so much its not possible to hypnotise someone randomly without a pretalk more to do with that its against safety guidlines since there is no prescreening for psychological emotional problems;explaing to someone what your going to do and to give them the CHOICE of taking part.


Well I have watched loads of professional hypnosis shows, done 1 or 2 myself, and never not once have I ever seen anyone do anything that could even come close to any sort of psychological assessment of any kind. Most people wouldn't know how. So please, educate us, how do you asses for paranoia, schizophrenia, manic depression, suicidal tendencies, hysteria, OCD, PTSD, or another psychological imbalance as I think this would be a very important thing to know. Personally I juts say, "And if you are mentally incompetent or on drugs don't come on stage."


Quote:
And to encourage many on here with little or no training to go out and just have ago without even being aware of those guidlines and why they were put there.


Do you mean the guidelines for the 1952 Hypnotism act? The reason most of them are their was because at the time the loudest shouting hypnotists like Cason were scared to death of the new style guys stealing their thunder. However even those guidelines don't cover emotiona or mental illness - unless you have a section I don't.
Quote:

In short many impromtu force thrmselves on members of the public. And this notion of walking up to a stranger and shouting sleep is where its coming from. that's the beef.

But this is going around in circles if you want to believe impromtu is something new and superior then I guess they are your beliefs. Impromtu just like stage is only a context not different from each other. The only differences are between those that are doing it.

The main attration as I see it for the current trend is because its a shortcut, easier and cheaper option from learning hypnosis properly.


Don't know about that. MY courses are not cheap and from what I see of the street guys neither are theirs. The difference of course is that I teach you how to earn the fee back in one show.

But of course people should just have a go. I certainly did.
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Jon Chase



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mindpunisher
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In my view you can't hypnotise someone with a single suggestion. But like I said I would love to see a video. And from my experience you can't get someone to the point where they are hypnotised with a single suggestion either. When someone slumps over they aren't deeply hypnotised more on the way to being hypnotised. If that's your definition of being hypnotised then in your case they are. But in mine they aren't.

The street guys don't need paid they get an orgasm when someone slumps over.And from what Ive seen they don't hypnotise someone with a single suggestion either they use quite clumsy inductions after the slump.
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