|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Matt Adams Special user Harvest, AL 827 Posts |
Jim, can you PM or detail here any thoughts you have concerning your icecream social? I bought it yesterday and had a couple questions. Here they are:
1) What's the best way to get free ice cream? Should I contact the local parlors or have the school do it? 2) What if free ice cream isn't possible? Who pays for it? 3) You mention doing your "business" with the PTA. Does every school have this? There wasn't any information on who/how to contact in a school. For instance, would I want to ask specifically for a PTA leader, school administrator, or someone else? In short, who's the best person to contact regarding "selling" this idea to the school? Lots of helpful info in your packet. Worth the 15 bucks. Thanks!
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com
Instagram: @mattadamsministries Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries |
|||||||||
kazam65 New user 84 Posts |
I have Jim's course and can't say enough good things about it.
To get the free ice cream...there is almost always a local grocer near the school that almost always LOVE to do community things like this. I even print up a program and give them a free ad in it. The program will be in the hands of hundreds of families in their community so they'd be almost nuts to not agree to it. At the very least they may sell it to you at their cost, but any costs (and I tell the PTA this) that they incur will be duducted from the gross sales BEFORE we split it up. And in almost every case it IS the PTO person you are dealing with, so if you can't find their info on the school website sometimes it just takes a phone call to the school to see who is in charge of events like this. Good luck Matt...and thanks again Jim for such a phenomenal course! I have a handful of these in February and I KNOW they will all be a huge success! Alan |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-27 14:01, mattadamsmagic wrote: What do you want him to come and do it for you too? Perhaps a bit of education into the school market before you jump in with a fundraising endeavor. Understanding the structure, workings and needs of a school's operations is necessary. Do you even know what PTO stands for? I thought Jim's course provided insight into most of these things. Some things are left for you to do on your own though. |
|||||||||
Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
PTO...
Pat Tim's Orphous? Phone The Optician? Pets Taste Orange? |
|||||||||
Matt Adams Special user Harvest, AL 827 Posts |
Quote:
What do you want him to come and do it for you too? Perhaps a bit of education into the school market before you jump in with a fundraising endeavor. Understanding the structure, workings and needs of a school's operations is necessary. Do you even know what PTO stands for? I thought Jim's course provided insight into most of these things. Some things are left for you to do on your own though. Hmm, thanks for the sarcastic rebuke, Mindpro. Most of us are here trying to learn. But wait, tell us what you really think! *rolls eyes* Nope...don't know what PTO means. About to Google it. Why do you think I bought a course from Jim - cause I'm a pro at booking school gigs already? Obviously not...they call me to do shows and I do them. That's that. Now I'm trying to actively pursue school shows so I need to learn about how schools work. Don't go criticizing those of us who don't know what you know. You obviously had to learn too and most of us feel that's what the Café is here for.
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com
Instagram: @mattadamsministries Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries |
|||||||||
Matt Adams Special user Harvest, AL 827 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-28 10:11, kazam65 wrote: Alan, this was very helpful. Thanks!!
Website: www.MattAdamsMinistries.com
Instagram: @mattadamsministries Facebook: www.facebook.com/mattadamsministries |
|||||||||
Scott O. Inner circle Midwest 1143 Posts |
PTO
Parent Teacher Organization
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
|
|||||||||
Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
I became a qualified high-school teacher to pursue this Market. I took a year out of my life to get my qts, after having just finished a masters all because I believed I could get into the school Market better with my shows by offering the school the chance to pay me as a supply teacher.
Now I'm not going to say it didn't work, because while I got the qualification, I ultimately decided not to waste my time marketing myself in this way. I won't say why as the same reasons may not apply for you. But surface to say, I found a much bountiful Market to conquer instead. In regards to hosting a show and practically putting it on in partnership with the school, I advise against that as well. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it will be a waste of your time. You'll spend weeks trying to sell tickets, organise food, drink, staff to work the door, working with the caretaker and making up flyers etc. Arranging dealers with ice-cream people and getting all their marketing stuff to put on a flyer you have to put together and pay for printing. After all that, if you break even, your lucky. If it's exposure your after, then put together an Educational show and perform it in the school for free during the school day. Others have talked about hiring a theatre and putting on a show. That will also be a break even investment, but at least then you get to perform on a big stage and can video the entire show, something you cannot do in a school. If it's money you want to make, then again put an educational show together. Forget trying to sell it to the schools, it won't work. Instead find sponsorship from the local council, lottery or some small business to pay you to put on 40 shows for free at the local schools to you. Its much easier to sell a show if someone else is putting up the bill. For you, it means you only have to sell yourself to one client, rather than 40, and for the client, its tax deductible and looks good that they are promoting childrens education through the arts. that's all for now. But that is the secret to midweek work, lets see what you guys do with it. |
|||||||||
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Steven -
With all due respect, you must be speaking about your experience with your market. There are many performers in North America, performing daytime and evening shows in schools. Some do several hundred shows a year. Some do less. Some work for free, in order to do other paid shows later on (2 for 1) -- Alan's magic workshop idea, for example. Some performers are sponsored. But most school performers are paid by the school or parent's group directly. Also, some of the info you are guessing at, about how to organize a school fundraiser, is way off base. Jim Snack, John Kaplan, and others are not selling untested theories. They are selling info on what they personally have done hundreds of times. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
|
|||||||||
Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
I'll let you make your own conclusions. Experience is what matters and I until you try it yourself, nothing anybody says will really be taken seriously. I've said what I have to say and I can't argue with you when your quoting other peoples comments made in commenting on others comments. It's just Chinese whispers. I also question the age on which those resources you mentioned were written. Were living in a very different time than when they were published or last performed.
|
|||||||||
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I've done several hundred school shows over the past 30 years, so I can speak with some authority, too.
I currently do dozens of school shows a year, in with my mix of other shows. I'm not one of the performers who does hundreds of school shows each year. But I can name several. BTW, I live in the same province as John Kaplan, and I've seen him do his fundraiser shows. - Donald P.S. My school show webpage: http://www.donalddunphy.com/schools.html
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
|
|||||||||
Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Donald, I am like you. I too have an educational show (see my website) and have done a bunch of fundraiser shows at school. The educational shows only get booked about 10 times a years, and they are usually always the reading show. For me, they are all usually paid for by the school and correspond with some themed week the school is running. But its not a lucrative market.
Even then, its only about a dozen shows a year your doing. It's not worth wasting your time putting your show together and marketing it for that many shows. Your better off in the long-run, putting more work into the birthday party show as that has hundreds of potential bookings coming from your hard work. But educational show do have a small market, not much as they are paid for by the school themselves and sponsorship is really the only way to sell that so that your doing 200+ shows a year. But fund-raisers are a big NO in my opinion. I do about 4 of them a year, all of which called me through local Internet searchers. I just did my standard fee at the same rate. Three of those were at a weekend, so if I wasn't doing them, I would have been doing a birthday party instead. So that's not really money earned, they were just the ones that called in first. Only one of them was mid-week, which was held in the evening and they sold tickets for etc. I didn't do much else that turn up and do my job. I charged my standard fee simply because I don't have the time to sell tickets and all that, on the slim hope that it can make me a tiny bit more than what my fee is paying me. But with just 4 shows a year... its not worth wasting your time pursuing this market. Even if you did a dozen; I question if its worth it, especially if you consider the time aspect on selling tickets, brochures, flyers etc. And then if they take place at weekend, I consider that a loss. It doesn't matter if the event makes money etc. that's time away from doing a birthday party which has you full standard fee attached and requires no work on your side. Off course, that would depend on how many birthday party shows you have coming in, but if you target your advertising like I suggested, then you should have plenty. Steve |
|||||||||
Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
But, Steve, you don't KNOW how many shows you are going to book. It's all a crap shoot. Yes, it COULD turn out you work hard developing a show and only book 7 throughout the year. But it could also be that the show really takes off and is successful on profitable. That part of the risk (and fun) of this biz!
|
|||||||||
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Again, Steve, you don't know enough about how others do school fundraisers to speak as an authority on the subject, that it can't be done. Others are doing it. And they aren't really doing it the way you are guessing.
I discovered my system for doing them by trial and error, and by careful observation of others. Others discovered their system by trial and error. Still others discovered their system for doing them by reading these courses. Alan, who chimed in earlier, has gotten lots of return from Jim Snack's course. He even shared his story on the page that I linked to. John Kaplan still does many fundraisers a year. He posts a schedule on his website (different website than I linked to). BTW, John and Jim run their fundraisers in totally different ways. But both ways are effective for their customers, and for them! Just because you can't wrap your imagination around the possiblities, doesn't mean that people aren't doing these shows successfully. - Donald P.S. What in the world are "Chinese whispers"?
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
|
|||||||||
Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Its not about any of that, its about demand and time-management.
Lets say you did one a month, with time spent preparing for it, selling tickets, organising ice-cream etc. That's just 12 shows a year. Its not worth it. Let's say you do one show a week, which is highly unlikely as most schools only have 1 fund-raisers a year, and some not even that. But let's say you live in a highly populated area with lots of schools (as some towns only have 1 school), and did 1 show a week. How much work do you have to put into each show to promote it? You don't have the time to do that. And then you have to remember the school term time-table. There are only 36 weeks in a school year. That's 36 shows you can do a year. Do you really want to spend all that time trying to sell yourself to such a small market? I do 264 birthday parties a year, 4 a week on average. It simply doesn't make any sense to market to an area that at best can offer you 1 show a week and requires tons of your time to promote, when you could be working on selling your birthday party show that brings in guaranteed money and an abundance of work. That's my argument. Don't waste your time with this market, focus on something else instead. Even busking in the streets, and selling balloons has a much better return than the school fund-raiser. I'm not saying there isn't a market to be had, just that there are more profitable ones to pursue. Steve P.S: Chinese wispers is a saying for when you hear something that came from somebody else. In the classic definition, its usually means the message has been modified from its original telling due to the many diffrent interpretation had from each person passing it on. |
|||||||||
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Again, you don't understand how it works. You're guessing.
And you are too lazy to follow links I provided, to do some basic research. Alan made $2000 in one show. That's more than 4 birthdays. And he didn't spend a whole week to do that one show. (I certainly don't spend a whole week to do 1 show, when I do school fundraisers). He probably had other shows that same week. Even at $1000 per show, that's more than 4 birthdays (by many entertainers). Alan also said he has a few of these in February. You have to have the show to make it work, and you have to understand how to make it work (so you can explain it to your customer). More info can be found by listening to calls, reading threads, doing research elsewhere, buying courses, etc. You can be right in your opinion, or you can open up your mind and learn about what others are doing. I'm not here to convince you to do it yourself. I just want you to acknowledge that others are doing it, and doing OK at it. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
|
|||||||||
kazam65 New user 84 Posts |
I actively pursue doing school fundraisers because:
A. They are highly profitable B. They don't require much work (AT ALL!) c. They are extremely FUN! D. The school LOVES you for it. As far as a lot of work, this has not been my experience. The school sells the tickets...all I do is provide posters to put up, a ticket and flyer template, (they print them off),a couple of phone calls to make sure they are on the right track. I do a small mini "teaser" show a day or two before to get the kids excited. But I tell you...if you can get a school with 500+ kids all excited about coming to your show (and bringing the family too) there is no reason at all they WOULDN'T be a big success! I've even developed a website specifically for my fundraisers. It is http://www.MagicShowFundraisers.com. And thanks once again Jim Snack for being such an inspiration! |
|||||||||
Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Kazam, thank-you for that link. It was very helpful. I will say, and I mean this as constructive criticism that I hope you will take purely as my opinion, it felt like reading an advert from a car salesman. I felt like while reading it, there were hidden terms and conditions which will most likely kick me in the butt afterwards.
It could be just how I read it, and my page 6 the 'no risk' line helped alleviate some of that, but if I was representing the school, I honestly would have thrown it away after reading the first page. Can I recommend you put the 'no risk' statement and all that on the first page? As an ex-teacher reading that, I want to know that 'you pay nothing' foremost. Once I know there is no financial risk for me, I would read more. I also read nothing about your show. Apart from floating a child the day before, I have no idea what your fundraising entertainment involves. How long is your magic show? Do you play games? How would you manage 500 children? Is the ice-cream free? Is the ice-cream suitable for vegetarians etc. I know nothing about you, what awards do you have, how much experience have you got? Are you CRB checked and allowed to work with children? These are all questions I would want answered from your booklet before I even consider ringing you. I say the above with the greatest respect, its what I look for. You probably get lots of good feedback and that's fine. But a few minor changes and I believe that flyer will work better for you. I say the above because very few people would and I believe it will help you. Back to the debate. You suggested the average you might get is 250 participants to the event. I will say that the ones I have done have topped out at 100 attendees. But lets say you get a really successful school and do the 250 you said. You charge $3 a head. That's $750 earned. Split that in 2 (you and the school) and you've made $375 dollars. I don't know what you charge for a birthday party in your area, but Ive heard some of the other rates other entertainers are charging and they get more than that. In pound equivalent, I match that with a birthday party booking. Even if that's a good turnout, and good fee. Time spent on the flyer, poster, marketing and phone calls. Going in the day before and lugging around a massive illusion etc. In the end, was it the most efficient use of your time? Now Donald suggested you could make $1000 per show. That $2000 earned, which at $3 a head turns into 670 attendees about. Again, most fundraisers I have seen where there was a ticket price maxed out at 100 people. Most schools could not handle that many with hall space and fire safety regulation. And most entertainers could not control that many guests and have games in their arsenal which get them all joining in. Even if you managed to conquer all those hurdles, to the parent you look like a sheep-herder. Maxing out the number of attendees to increase your bottom line, without the resources to truly manage that number of people. Most of us are all a one-man entertainment machine. Regardless of how good we are, its looks like we are in over-our-heads to all the parents watching. It could actually damage your reputation, especially if just one bad child acts up and the other 600+ parents see it and decide never to book you again as they put the blame on you. I don't want to look for negative. I love the idea of this. Again, I do them myslef and maybe you have schools already in place that have a large number of attendees so that this becomes a much more profitable venture. But if your like me, and fundraisers get about 100 people. Then regardless on how you do with sweet sales and BOR. Its still not going to be the best use of your time. Steve |
|||||||||
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I'm finally glad to see Steve saying "I don't understand", instead of "I know how it must work, and here is why it doesn't work."
The best way to learn is to ask questions with a sincere interest in knowing answers. Stop making assumptions. But that also doesn't mean that all of the answers are going to be handed over on a silver platter. Here's one clue: $5 x 200 people = $1000. $5 x 400 people = $2000. ($5 is the lowest price I've seen for a ticket to a family night show. Some groups charge more.) Most fundraising school shows I do have at least 200-350 people at the show. And as I said back on page 1, no outside sales. In Alan's letter, the tickets are not $3 each. They are twice that amount. (He actually doesn't get specific, but simple math can figure out the facts.) $6 x 250 = $1500. Half to the school, as detailed = $750. Half to Alan = $750. (Plus BOR sales.) Your math is off, Steve. Steve, you also mis-read other things on the flyer. The floating child is not done at the assembly appearance. It is done in the family night show itself, and is a drawing card. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
|
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
It obvious to me after following Steve's post here and previous posts in other threads he doesn't understand and comprehend the school market, at least here in the U.S., but I have also seen much of what he's having a hard time understanding be just as strong and successful of a school market in Canada, Austrialia, New Zealand and many other countries.
It's often hard to understand something different from what you are used to and may not be able to comprehend. This is not meant negatively towards Steve, just my observation. The point is - the school market is a specialty market. While many use the term "school shows" generically, there are at least a half a dozen types of completely different show-related bookings and types of gigs. When you lump them together as one generic term, different elements and results apply to each. The truth is you must take the time to truly learn, know and understand the school market and the needs of each of the individual type of events. They are all different with different booking (and marketing) procedures and contacts. Some are done through a Principal, some through an advisor, some though a committee, some though a relative group or organization,and others though the District Office/Admisnistrator. It's not a simple one-size-fits-all approach or endeavor like kids birthday parties. Much like corporate markets, a school is part of a larger district, which is part of a larger state and ultimately Federal education system, making it similar to the largest "corporation" in existence. You need to have a compete understanding of this to truly comprehend the opportunities and success in this market. The other problem I continually see here is you are looking at the school market from an entertainer's perspective. Other than a few family night-type of extra-curricular events and a possible occasional assembly, you are limiting any chance of success in the school market. Schools are only very minimally interested in entertainment in the overall scheme of their operation. Their interests are in education. So many times, they hear the word magician (which the first thought in mind to them means entertainment NOT eduction) and you are immediately reducing yourself to limited possibilities. This is the same from magicians that try to adapt their standard kids party show to include some quasi-related "message" and pretend to call themselves a "educational" program (again not Steve, just in general). Schools are fed up with this, and see right through this. As a matter of fact I have been at a national conference where this was one of the topics included in an ed session. The school market is not just a quick opportunity to make weekday income as many magicians tend to think. These are the guys that are getting shut down, only making a couple of hundred of dollars, and claim the school market sucks. Fundraising is another of the areas that many entertainers greatly misunderstand. There is so much more involved than just the role of the entertainer. To the school, unless given reason to believe otherwise, they simply think of the "entertainment" to just be one more of the "things needed" - like tickets, paper cups, napkins, etc. as part of their event. For something to be considered more than this needs to be presented and valued as more than this. This is a great market that takes extreme dedication and much more harder work (marketing and execution) than most entertainers are willing to commit to. Those that have such as Jim Snack and John Kaplan, have made this grow into a very lucrative aspect of their overall operation. It is a calculated part of their business plan, backed by the commitment and effort to make it work. I am familiar with both of their works and they are well worth the price and effort. I was lucky enough to also have one of the biggest names in entertainment fundraising and one of the largest fundraising corporations in America both take me under their wings and educate me to what has now become my fundraising division of my operation. Yes, it is very possible to make thousands of dollars at every event for yourself, but it won't come from getting one book or course and just doing your standard magic show. More than that you schools must be making the profits required for them to deem it (and you) a successful fundraiser. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » School Shows and Fundraisers (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.09 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |