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Kameron Messmer
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Billings, MT
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Wait amminut... freebee design? I mised that. anyways I still couyldnt afford it. don't want to get your hopes up. maybe when I make it big I'll hit you up!
magic4u02
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Kameron: you have to be very careful about putting something in a kid show just because you love it yourself. Now I know you say parents like it to. I will tell you this much. As many shows as you book for kids DOING the fire eating etc. you will lose at least 5 times that amount for parents simply not even giving you a chance because you do it. Something to think about.

Kyle
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Sam Sandler
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Let me jump in here and back up Kameron for a minute.

not about hte site but about the fire eating

You are all missing one BIG thing he is in Montana this is not like the rest of the country
people up there are actually smart and not worried by the PC police. this is the last frontier the final resting place for real america.

Kameron go and enjoy the fire eating I understand where you are coming from
I have family up there and have performed in Montana half a dozen times and its great. I perform with my hands on fire and they love it. I produce a ball of fire and then a dove or silks and never has a parent in montana that is said they had a problem with it.

what people here or I should say outside of montana don't get is that 14year olds are carrying hunting rifles and shooting to get dinner

no I am not joking!!

so fire eating is not that big of a deal everyone so give kameron some breathing room on this one!

any way back to your website.

kyle has indeed said a lot of great things and as you pointed out this is a learning process for yourself and you are also attempting to design and create this site on your own as I understand it.

I too feel that you need to create a bit more of an over all feel for the site and then let them enter differernt parts of the site for the type of magic they want - kids show- company show- church show I must say I do not like the term "adult magic" it just Conjures up the wrong kind of t houghts. you can say more sophiscated magic or non kid shows or Private parties or kids ages 20 and up
however you want to but play with that thought.

one last thing I might say is get some more photos of you maybe a real photo shoot and or some live action shots HOWEVER when you do this make sure you borrow rent steal what ever you do get a really good camera for the pictures and take LOTS of them
figure for a 30 minute show try to have some one take at least 50-75 pictures as you are sure to get 3-5 good ones out of that.

well good luck and enjoy sky country!! cant wait to get back out there again!!
oh my brother lives in kalispell and friends in troy. my brother used to live in billings many years ago.

have fun

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Sam Sandler
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I probably should hav also said that with any dangerous trick you need to make sure that you are very clear about the dangers and that you are a professional and have training but that should go with out saying

I am by no means a PC performer I feel that PC will be the death of america its such a shame that people think that suing some one is a way of living!

any way just wanted all the Café people to know that of course I know to be careful and make sure the kids know its a trick or that its dangerous I don't need anyone coming down on me LOL

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Kameron Messmer
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Billings, MT
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Thank you Sam! You're right, MT is VERY different from the rest of the country. Ive never been away for too long so I don't know the difference. Kids here are driving cars on farms and shooting firearms. I have hardly ever heard of a lawsuit like this happening here. I always give disclaimers and probably go overboard when I feel it's appropriate (when the parent stresses that I'm a professional or see a kid with a glimmer of mischief in his eyes)

I've been thinking of instead of pictures for links I'd put a desciption or age range e.g. What kind of show are you looking for? -"Kids and family?" "teens and college?" "20 and up?" obviously smoother. I just don't think the words describe it as well as a picture. A picture says a thousand words or so...

What do you mean
"you need to create a bit more of an over all feel for the site"? not quite following you...sorry!

I like the idea for the pictures... mostly a money issue so far.
Ken Northridge
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I’m all for thinking outside the box and not going along with all the ‘rules’ entertaining children. But as far as promoting yourself is concerned (which is what this thread is primarily about) fire eating for children is NOT a good idea.

Kameron says he gets hired and has no complaints about it. However, what Kameron does not know is how many will not even call because of this part of his show. I would not be willing to exclude that percentage of my prospects in the interest of running a profitable business.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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Why could you not "afford" an offer of a free mockup design?

Were there conditions that you couldn't use it as a model / template, or conditions that you had to buy something from him right away? If there weren't conditions, what harm could it do?

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Kameron Messmer
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Billings, MT
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Ken,
Most people that contact me for a show know nothing of my site or fire eating. It's word of mouth or from fellow magicians. My website is a newish venture. Only after I get in contact with people do I mention fire. I would bet I have NEVER lost a client that went to my site and saw fire. Again my website is new and no one has called me from seeing it yet. I KNOW I have booked shows because I do fire and its a hit.. You can do whatever you want but the fire is working for me!
Kameron Messmer
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Billings, MT
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Donald,
I didn't want anyone doing work for me when I knew I wouldn't be able to purchase his services.At least not now. I just don't want to string any one along. If he knows this and still wants to give me a mock up and knows I might use it and might NEVER buy anything then cool! Otherwise I don't want to be an ***...
Sam Sandler
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Kameron,

no matter what you say unless these magicians here on the Café live in Montana they wont get it! LOL

I love it out there I remember about 10 years ago before the "big" airport got put in LOL people were strolling off the plan carrying their shot guns in plain canvas covers its great out there

any way as for the website "feel" you need to define who you are as a performer and then unleash that through out the site. if your primarily going to be a kids performer then yea even out there you might want to tone down the fire eating and glass walking however you still have book kids shows just not promote heavily

if you want to be know as the guy that does fire eating and side show stuff then push that as the over all feel
then inside the site you can show that you also offer "kids shows" church shows etc.

you need to know who you are and who your audience is before you can really fine tune your site.

you have heard the phrase jack of all trades and master of none! or magic for all occaisions these are things you never want to be known for.

sure I do everything from corporate to churches to birthday parties to full blown grand illusion shows and educational shows BUT I promote myself as a family entertainer and school show specialist. they other shows just come in thru word of mouth or those seeing my show somewhere
but by promoting one or two themes or aspects of what I do I get a lot of phone calls for that yet people will still call and ask if I do birthday parites,

I hope this is making sense I am kind of off today as I am in the middle of writing new lecture notes for an upcoming magic convention that I will be performing and lecturing in so my mind is not up to snuff thinking about other things! smile

have a good one

sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com
http://www.deafinitelymagic.com
Scott Burton
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Quote:
On 2011-02-01 13:22, Kameron Messmer wrote:
Donald,
I didn't want anyone doing work for me when I knew I wouldn't be able to purchase his services.At least not now. I just don't want to string any one along. If he knows this and still wants to give me a mock up and knows I might use it and might NEVER buy anything then cool! Otherwise I don't want to be an ***...


People and companies give away samples all the time (think grocery stores or those little soaps or cereals that arrive in the mail) knowing that only a small fraction of those sample will result in new business. Perhaps he'll do a great job for you, you'll know you want to use him but cannot, you'll take some of the elements from him and use them yourself, and, after a year or so when you are making a ton of cash and the time is right, you will remember him and his kindness and will purchase his services. It makes good business sense for Ade to offer such a sample to you and it makes perfect sense for you to try him out. I say go for it!

Even your testimonial and share of his work (sample mock-up) once received on this very web site would be a returning of the favor to some level (especially if this helps him obtain the business of other new clients).
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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Thank you Scott. You said exactly what I was thinking.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Reuben Dunn
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First impressions: I'm the father of three children. I'm not sure I'd want to hire someone who wasn't looking like they were having fun doing a childrens party. The face is too somber. There's no emotional connection between you and the child, and me, the perspective client. I can't halp but think if Max Maven, e.g., the similar facial mood.

Ault entertainment, sounds too "X" rated. Perhaps a different title link.

I "get" the persona that you appear to want to show, but for the kids, you really need to "lighten" up abit and smile! The face can convey a lot of emotion, and what I'm picking up seems to be anything but "fun"!

I'm sure you're a hit doing childrens shows, but most childrens performers I know have a generally happy expression, even if they're doing "Run, Rabbit, Run" for hte 1000th time; expecially if they're doing a photo shhot for their services.

Just something to consider.

The Quotes....Not funny. Sorry but if you've not got any endocrcements from previous customers, then I would suggest you lose the page. The humor jist isn't there, it comes accross as a bit "high schoolish".

It's like me saying "Bob Cassidy and Richard Osterlind: Both let me buy their DVD and signed my autograph book!" Huh?
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
Kameron Messmer
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Billings, MT
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As far as smiling, part of the way I do my show is acting "normal" and "adult" like while doing something completely silly. Like when I pick the kid up in my video. Deadpan yet picking a kid up in the air and moving him to the other side of the stage. Its funny and kinda how I do things. The kids LIKE seing an adult do something out of the ordinary. I see other performers act silly and child like and the kids might like it as well, it just seems corney. Not my style. I DO smile, it's just not always in the shots taken. The pics have the Children smiling, I THOUGHT that counted for something... If you watch the video you'll see the kids smiling and laughing regardless of my face..
As far as the quotes... you're the first that thought they weren't funny... I wonder what that means...
And I DO have quotes from customers on my page... Front pages and below the joke pages.
monstercreations
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England
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Hi,
I pm'd you and added you to Skype... It was an offer of a free mock-up... free to me means nothing to pay.
The first person to pm me can have a free one page mock-up.... only one though!
Cheers,
Ade
Reuben Dunn
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I hope you will be able to seperate the "personal" likes of your web site, from that of someone who has never met you.

My comments are not personal. I looked at your site as a parent who might want to hire you.

What I saw didn't "warm" me to you. Deadpan is fine. Buster Keyton made a wellknown carrer of it. However, not everybody understands deadpan.

As far as the "quotes" all I noticed was the "humor". Now, if that gets in the way of the real comments, from the perspective of a potential client, what does that say about the "humor"?

I get the feeling you're taking the comments a tad too personal. I need to step away from what YOU like and try to look at this from the perspective of a potential paying customer (moi).

The problem with asking for opinons about a web site is that 99% of the time you're bound to be told something that you don't agree with/want to read.

The responses to those opinions are generally spent defending what's up there, rather than seriously considering that those opinons just might be valid ones, and may have been given to help improve the perception of the performer. Ego strokeing isn't really that fulfiling. At least I never had the time for it.
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
Mike Maturen
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Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side
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I agree. Kameron has been unfairly hammered in other threads about his website. I disagreed with much of the criticism. This thread, however is loaded with great advice.

Kameron: I understand the rural nature of your area. My sister lives in Missoula. I, too, live in a rural area. My entire COUNTY only has 12,000 residents! However, I tend to agree that it is a bad idea to include dangerous tricks in your kids act. Parents might be intrigued by it, kids might think it's cool...but all it will take is ONE kid getting hurt and you will be sunk.

I am doing a family stage show next week...and I purposely left out anything to do with swords, knives, fire, etc...just for that reason.

These guys are seasoned pros...I would listen to them!


Quote:
On 2011-01-31 19:32, magic4u02 wrote:
Kameron: you have to be very careful about putting something in a kid show just because you love it yourself. Now I know you say parents like it to. I will tell you this much. As many shows as you book for kids DOING the fire eating etc. you will lose at least 5 times that amount for parents simply not even giving you a chance because you do it. Something to think about.

Kyle
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
Mike Maturen
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Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side
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Quote:
I like the idea for the pictures... mostly a money issue so far.


Kameron: Do like I am doing...go to the local high school or community college and find out if there is a kid thast is interested in photography that is willing to do it for you. I have a young lady from my son's high school doing my live action shots next week...she has even done a few senior pictures for kids!

She is willing to do it free...but I will give her something for her troubles.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment
The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen
989-335-1661
mikematuren@gmail.com

AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life"

member: International Magician's Society
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