The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The International Brotherhood of Magicians! » » Pledge (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

magicians
View Profile
Inner circle
Teacher and Legend
2898 Posts

Profile of magicians
Our club passed a rule that we say the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of our club meeting. As much of a patriot as I am, I found this to be inappropriate, as we are an International organization and should not hold allegiance to any particular country.
What is your opinion? Does your club say the pledge?
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
No, and I too really don't see any reason to do so. A tad jingoistic if you ask me.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
mrunge
View Profile
Inner circle
Charleston, SC
3717 Posts

Profile of mrunge
No, we don't say the Pledge either. A LOT of our members are active or former military, police or fire personnel and they're not offended by our not doing it. I also don't think we've actually really considered it as we're just getting together once a month to play tricks on each other and enjoy some fellowship. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. After all, this is, and you are in, America!

Mark. Smile
magicians
View Profile
Inner circle
Teacher and Legend
2898 Posts

Profile of magicians
I found that most of our club were concerned that they would appear unpatriotic by opposing the rule at the club. Private discussion was quite opposed to it, as the club in Multi-national.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20504 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
This does put us between a rock and a hard place. A magic club meeting is hardly a patriotic meeting. Yet, opposing saying the Pledge isn't patriotic either. It may be a case when both are poor fits.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- My basic magic club is Ring 35 and named for a judge who attends. We start our meeting with neither the Pledge nor a prayer. Having been raised as a cowboy, everything started that way. To me the "fit" is right at both.
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
WayneCapps
View Profile
Special user
Charleston, SC
761 Posts

Profile of WayneCapps
My club does not say the pledge either and I don't mind if we do or do not. However I find it a bit offensive that you find it inappropriate to say the pledge at any meeting place. I am a proud American and a 17 year veteran in the US Air Force. So given the opportunity, I will never think it is inappropriate to pay respect (or allegiance) to the country that I live in. To me, it does not matter if it is an international organization, my club meets in the United States. When visiting other organizations across the globe, I fully respect their right to pay tribute to their country.

If it is not something you want to do, you can just stand quietly and let others pay their respects.

So, the next time you think that it is inappropriate or " tad jingoistic" to pay respect to our country at any gathering (magic or not), think about Senior Airman Daniel Johnson, age 23, Senior Airman Daniel Sanchez, age 23 and Senior Airman Mark Forester, age 29. I am sure they would have loved to pay respect to their country but they can't. They recently died for our country while serving in Afghanistan. Something to think about.
magicians
View Profile
Inner circle
Teacher and Legend
2898 Posts

Profile of magicians
Quote:
On 2011-02-02 19:50, WayneCapps wrote:
My club does not say the pledge either and I don't mind if we do or do not. However I find it a bit offensive that you find it inappropriate to say the pledge at any meeting place. I am a proud American and a 17 year veteran in the US Air Force. So given the opportunity, I will never think it is inappropriate to pay respect (or allegiance) to the country that I live in. To me, it does not matter if it is an international organization, my club meets in the United States. When visiting other organizations across the globe, I fully respect their right to pay tribute to their country.

If it is not something you want to do, you can just stand quietly and let others pay their respects.

So, the next time you think that it is inappropriate or " tad jingoistic" to pay respect to our country at any gathering (magic or not), think about Senior Airman Daniel Johnson, age 23, Senior Airman Daniel Sanchez, age 23 and Senior Airman Mark Forester, age 29. I am sure they would have loved to pay respect to their country but they can't. They recently died for our country while serving in Afghanistan. Something to think about.

I NEVER said I was opposed to saying the pledge at any public U.S. function, don't even go there. At a multi-national organization, I felt it was inappropriate yet I am using this forum to poll members on the point. I am as patriotic and supportive of this Country as anyone, including you, so your "offended" posture is misplaced. And, someone else made the "jingo-istic" comment.
This is a conversation and a fact finding effort. Thus far, there have been no other IBM clubs that say the pledge.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
Skip Way
View Profile
Inner circle
3771 Posts

Profile of Skip Way
I don't see an issue with American-based chapters of international organizations choosing to open their meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance. I belong to two international civic groups that open each session with the pledge and a prayer. I'm an atheist, but I'm not opposed to standing quietly while those around me practice their faith. Both of these groups have members from other countries. They stand respectfully and quietly as the rest of us recite the pledge. When I lived in Europe, I would stand respectfully as those around me sang their national anthem - and no one thought any less of me for not joining in.

My concern is for the division that seems to be developing as a result of this action. I have a problem with the majority of your club discussing the issue behind the backs of the leaders and other members rather than working together on a resolution.

Like you, Ian, I am happy and proud to recite the pledge or sing the anthem at civic and social functions. Whether a group feels it is appropriate within their setting should be discussed openly and honestly within the group. Those that disagree can move to change it or simply and respectfully choose not to participate. It is that very freedom that our pledge and anthem represent, after all.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
WayneCapps
View Profile
Special user
Charleston, SC
761 Posts

Profile of WayneCapps
Well said Skip.

The former club that I belonged to opened their meeting with the pledge and there were no issues. The current club I belong to is less formal and we do not use the pledge to start our meetings. When visiting a few European chapters they sang their anthem. I did not find that to be inappropriate at all. While we are a multi-national organization, how many members of your club are multi-national and if there are several members, what are their thoughts since this is an American based chapter?

So, I guess my biggest issue is personally, I NEVER think it is inappropriate to show support for my country in a setting of my peers if the opportunity arises. If you feel that it is inappropriate, I believe that you should allow your peers who want to show support for their country to do so. As Americans we have earned that right.

As a fact finding effort, I guess I am trying to stress that there are very strong views on this subject and sometime when our society's tends to lean toward being overly politically correct, we should step back and look at what is actually happening. You have a few people who want to start a meeting with their peers by using a symbolic gesture that says they support the country that they live in, that is all. I just don't see an issue with it.
mrunge
View Profile
Inner circle
Charleston, SC
3717 Posts

Profile of mrunge
Skip and Wayne, I agree completely. The political correctness in this country has gotten WAY out of hand. We now try not to offend anyone in any way, shape or form, and to the detriment of our own country!

While in America, it is perfectly acceptable to say the pledge of allegiance, salute the flag, sing the national anthem, speak English (and to expect English to be the language of choice - after all, it is our National language) and even pray to the God of your understanding. If YOU don't want to do so, for whatever your personal belief or reasons may be, that, too, is fine. Just stand in silence and be respectful of those around you. This is, after all, America and that is our right.

If visiting a foreign land, you should do the same. Respect their traditions and customs, regardless of your own. If you don't agree, that is fine. Just stand in silence and be respectful. You are, after all, an American and that is one of our customs, traditions and beliefs!

Mark.
Father Photius
View Profile
Grammar Host
El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo)
17197 Posts

Profile of Father Photius
I'd be more worried if they wanted me to recite a Temperance Pledge.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
Skip Way
View Profile
Inner circle
3771 Posts

Profile of Skip Way
Temperance pledge?!? At a Ring meeting? Surely you jest, Padre! Smile "Another Flagon of Ale, Wench" is our traditional magic phrase!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
manofcards
View Profile
New user
96 Posts

Profile of manofcards
All we talk about in our club is magic, so this has never even come up. It is interesting to see what other clubs are doing, but I don't see why it would be appropriate for a club.
Skip Way
View Profile
Inner circle
3771 Posts

Profile of Skip Way
We manage our Ring as more than just a magic club. We are a lodge and a community service organization. We use our skills to support various beneficial charities throughout the community. So, like Civitan, Jaycees, Lions and such, impropriety has little to do with it. It falls to the interests of the members. I suspect that most wouldn't have a problem with it either way.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org
magicians
View Profile
Inner circle
Teacher and Legend
2898 Posts

Profile of magicians
Quote:
On 2011-02-03 23:24, manofcards wrote:
All we talk about in our club is magic, so this has never even come up. It is interesting to see what other clubs are doing, but I don't see why it would be appropriate for a club.

Thanks, this is the type of answer (without personal attacks) that is productive. I am curious (as a whole) if clubs have this as their meeting ritual. I guess I would have gotten less (personal) flack if I asked "Why don't clubs say the pledge of allegiance or do they?".
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
WayneCapps
View Profile
Special user
Charleston, SC
761 Posts

Profile of WayneCapps
There were no personnal attacks or intended personal attacks at all on my part. I don't feel that is productive either as we discuss these types of issues. We simply had a disagreement on an issue. I argued my case for the personal beliefs that I have. I am passionate about this topic and I am sure that come across in my comments but at no time was this personal. It is simply a topic that we are on oposite sides of. If you were here we would have the same spirited debate over a drink.
Jeff Dial
View Profile
Special user
Kent, WA
532 Posts

Profile of Jeff Dial
Next thing you know they'll be making us sing Oh Canada at hockey games.
No, wait..
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The International Brotherhood of Magicians! » » Pledge (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL