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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts 
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A christian school added sexual orientation to the Christian school's nondiscrimination policy,
http://www.tennessean.com/article/201101......RONTPAGE after public outcry and protests followed the, apparently pressured, resignation of a lesbian soccer coach, after she made know she, and her partner, were having a baby. http://www.tennessean.com/article/201012......ch-fired It's quite nice to see a place like this institute such policy as a result of the people calling for such a change.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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I disagree.
One post I have never written is in defense of Carrie Sue. Most people here seem to confuse religious conviction with intolerance. They are not the same. When public pressure causes us to water down our beliefs in the name of tolerance, the world of ideas becomes like mushy oatmeal. Eat up if you want, but I'll have none of it. And quite frankly, no libertarian who has any respect whatsoever for liberty would wish a religious school to cave into public pressure. |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts
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That is a very good post Jeff and very true. There will be some that still won't be able to grasp the fact you pointed out however.
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muse Special user Scotland 925 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 01:49, stoneunhinged wrote: They are not the same, but it is the case that there are many who use the one as a cover for the other. |
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 01:49, stoneunhinged wrote: Public Pressure? That is called democracy in my country. Do you propose we "Cave in" to Government pressure instead or do you suggest Anarchy? In my opinion "Public Pressure" is not always a bad thing, nor is it always a good thing. Government pressure is usually a bad thing, at least that has been my experience. Nobody can "Water Down" my beliefs. My beliefs are my own and can only be changed by me. My opinion is that anyone who feels threatened by someone else's opinions or belief, is not sure of their own beliefs or opinions. Iven 
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 05:48, muse wrote: As Mr Unhinged is one of the most tolerant people on this board, I imagine that is exactly the point he was making. My problem with Carrie Sue is that she advocates for her religious convictions to be compulsory for all. That is clearly intolerant and why I suspect Jeff says he has never posted in her defense. I can't understand the issue when people simply wish to associate with like minded people. If it was a government funded school I would argue because it was paid for out of everyones money, but if the Amish for example, wish their children schooled by only Amish teachers, I can't see how that is discrimination. My worry is that if religious schools are compelled to take gay teachers, it may result in gay associations having to accept evangelists in their ranks - or even the poor crazy 'formerly' gay soul savers. Nature discriminates, life discriminates, people discriminate. I think our laws should stop people injuring or disadvantaging others because of their personal dislikes, but I am against the law attempting to compel people to like others - that is a nonsense. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 01:49, stoneunhinged wrote: "And quite frankly, no libertarian who has any respect whatsoever for liberty would wish a religious school to cave into public pressure." That would be were you are completely wrong. That is exactly what they would want, especially over having the government mandate they change policy.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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Jeff
In my lifetime the Church has been adjusting (back peddeling, moon walking) to changing times pretty much constantly, and in order to be relevant in the future they must follow the changes in society. For example When I went to grade school corporal punishment was a common practice in the class room, and encouraged by parents, but now a parent, or teacher can get into a lot of trouble for beating children.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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Wow, so the ten commandments needs a footnote that reads "unless a lot of people think otherwise"...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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What a rediculous exaduration.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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I may disagree with their beliefs, but I defend their right to believe them. That doesn't mean I won't be vocal in opposition, and encouraging change.
http://www.theagitator.com/2011/01/27/ci......-policy/
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 08:37, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote: Well, besides the fact that homosexuality is not mentioned in the "ten" commandments, I'm amused that this is the response to this,but you don't hear it about mixed fabrics or shell fish. I'm also amused at how people conflate respecting ones right to believe, with respecting the belief itself, or even reserving the act of believing. I respect someone's right to say certain words, but that doesn't mean I respect their choice to say them.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Erwin New user 56 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 08:37, Mr. Mystoffelees wrote: Well, why else have Western societies tossed out the rest of Jewish law? Jesus said (John 15:12) "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." Why the fixation on the big 10 when the Chief Himself issued an overwrite? |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-09 18:50, gdw wrote: The school in question is apparently somewhat progressive, already split from the less tolerant Tennessee Baptist Convention in 2007, and its President insists that they are merely putting "into writing what Belmont always practiced." If you want my opinion, it sounds as though someone lower down in the administration (i.e., the Athletics Director) might have given the Coach bad advice or bad information, and the higher administration is taking steps so that this does not happen again. This is based only on the two articles you posted, and seems to be consistent with what I read.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 09:35, balducci wrote: Though I have doubts about the sincerity of what he said, it maybe true. If it is true than it doesn't change what happened, only when it began, and I think it's still a great thing to see. That is, they would still have been changing with the times to give people what they want, by their own choice. The ends (the progress) is good, AS WELL as the means. Something not seen as often as it should be.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts
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Quote:
When I went to grade school corporal punishment was a common practice in the class room, and encouraged by parents, but now a parent, or teacher can get into a lot of trouble for beating children. Maybe we should go back to corporal punishment. In the day's of spanking kids in school, the big problems with the kids were an occasional fight, playing hookie, chewing gum in class and running in the hall. Now that we have prohibited the schools from smacking our kids and also made it very difficult for parents to discipline their own, we have new problems in school, like packing a gun in school, shootings, and stabbings. It has gotten to the point that some teacher's have feared so much for their lives that they have taken guns to class themselves. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" I say smack the little demon's, knock some sense into their heads Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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Iven
Michael Vick did time for animal cruelty, and you think it is cool to beat up the little children? You have to be joking
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 06:52, irossall wrote: What country is that? Public pressure has nothing to do with truth, only with orthodoxy. We forget the difference to our detriment. Regarding my faulty understanding of "libertarianism": the foundation of toleration, both philosophically and historically--from Locke to Roger Williams to Jefferson and so on--is freedom of belief. What did Jefferson say? "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." A libertarian may wish to prefer just about anything to government enforcement of something. But to what end, if not to protect liberty of conscience? Taking GDW's logic (which is very poor, IMHO), it is preferable for us to gang up on people to squeeze them into a politically correct position than to leave them alone, lest the government become involved. But why gang up on people? Why not let them believe as they wish to believe? As long as they do not seek to use social, political, or legal institutions to push those beliefs on to others, why not leave them alone? Destiny is right that I am a very tolerant man. If you want to believe in God, or Satan, or Cthulhu, or all of them together, what is that to me? If your beliefs are offensive--say, you think gay people are perverts--how is that going to restrict my right to be gay? Beliefs can be dangerous--very dangerous indeed. But the best prevention against intolerance or stupidity is a maximum freedom of the exchange of ideas, which requires freedom to have different ideas in the first place. I myself am not a libertarian. Nor am I a relativist. I am simply convinced that all attempts to coerce others to believe in a certain way are unethical and ultimately destructive of the foundation of liberal society. And that would include forcing a Christian high school--whether through law or public pressure--to compromise what they believe to be true. And I always thought (apparently wrongly) that libertarianism comes closest to this view somehow. Pardon my mistake. |
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts
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Iven,
I think behavioral problems are more a by-product of faulty parenting, rather than lack of corporal punishment. The only time I will smack my kid is when he puts himself in direct danger- such as reaching for sharp knives or the stove. Even then, it's a slap on the hand, and only when a firm "No! Sharp!" or "No! Hot!" is ignored. I haven't had to smack him in quite a long time, and it will stop altogether once he's old enough to understand what's dangerous and why he shouldn't play with it.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-02-10 08:27, Al Angello wrote: I agree with Al. Institutions change over time, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There always have been and always will be reformers who want to go back to the One True Way of some nebulous past; but change goes on nonetheless. Hopefully, the long range trend is for greater understanding and moral progress; it appears that the case in the OP is a movement in that direction. JOhn
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Posted: Feb 9, 2011 11:50 pm 
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