We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » Phoenix Double Decker Cards - How Are You Using Them? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10636 Posts

Profile of saysold1
The Phoenix Double Decker from Cardshark is clearly a ground-breaking product, and anyone who owns the popular "Get Sharky" effect is familiar with the quality of these cards.

In addition to Get Sharky I recently was turned on (based on some threads at the Café) to using the Double Decker for a Duality or Ultimate Duality effect - and I have been very impressed with the "no limits" aspect of the DD - especially compared with Trilogy or other takes using Protea's.

I was curious how others are using the Phoenix Double Deckers in their performances, and which effect others feel is the best use of this great tool. Christian (Cardshark) has a super PDF of his site with many effects (Ultimate Brainwave, etc).

For those unfamiliar with the Double Deckers, you are in for a real treat. Here are the specs as per the web site:

# The cards of the Double-Decker are so ultrathin that two complete decks incl. Jokers fit into a regular cardcase!
# Design, playing card size and corner roundings exactly match the regular Phoenix Deck
# Cardcase of the Double-Decker is produced at US Playing Card Company to match the cardcase of the regular Phoenix Deck.
# The Double-Decker can be ordered in several combinations and allows applications acording to the Phil Deck, Trilogy etc.
# Roughing the cards will add a little thickness to the cards, but still 104 cards fit into the cardcase. For easily roughing the cards we invented the Phoenix Spray Grid that holds the thin cards in their position during the preparation
# Glueing cards in pairs is also possible, the added thickness does not prevent to still put the two full decks into the cardcase.


If you are using the Phoenix DD cards, how are you using them and which effect do you think is working really well for you (and why)?
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
edh
View Profile
Inner circle
4698 Posts

Profile of edh
How firm are the individual cards?
Magic is a vanishing art.
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10636 Posts

Profile of saysold1
Quote:
On 2011-02-10 21:20, edh wrote:
How firm are the individual cards?


They are quite thin no question - obviously 104 cards fit into a normal card box!

You would not want to hold them up directly to the light - but on any table or in your hands they remain straight and firm, and they are not obviously thin. Christian or others could better explain the handling but there are no major negatives.

The printing is perfection, but the cards are certainly thinner and the handling is not the same as a normal deck. I put mine in a red Bicycle box and I'm off to the races.

I performed Duality this afternoon to a pro magician friend for lunch and he said could not tell visually as I spread the cards or laid them down that the cards were thinner or any different from regular cards. He was unfamiliar with the Phoenix Double Deckers and said his mind was reeling with ideas and possibilities. That is what inspired me to start this thread.

I know Jan Forster in Germany and many other pros are now using these - and probably fooling a few magicians along the way as these double deckers are still a bit of a well kept secret.
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
rowdymagi5
View Profile
Inner circle
Virginia
3367 Posts

Profile of rowdymagi5
Im looking forward to getting these. I too would like to hear some other ideas people have come up with using these cards.
Zebaztian
View Profile
Special user
The Netherlands
655 Posts

Profile of Zebaztian
I was surprised how firm these thin cards are. I ordered them out of curiosity, but the cards are actually really good. Don't hand them over to a spec, because he then feels the cards a thin.

Posted: Feb 11, 2011 3:26pm
The ultimate Brainwave works good for me.
My mind reading routines: http://www.basjongenelen.nl/goocheltrucs/. Scroll a bit down to the English routines.
edh
View Profile
Inner circle
4698 Posts

Profile of edh
So if you handle them like regular cards there should be no problem with them kinking or bending, correct?
Magic is a vanishing art.
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10636 Posts

Profile of saysold1
Quote:
On 2011-02-11 15:43, edh wrote:
So if you handle them like regular cards there should be no problem with them kinking or bending, correct?

These cards are super think - 104 cards in a case. So handling is not exactly the same as regular cards - but for Ultimate Brainwave where cards are fanned on a mat - fanning is smooth as silk. For other effects like Duality or Trilogy, whatever - you probably don't want to do a spread as there are a lot of cards there and there is no point.

The genius aspect of these cards is in the no holds barred - no limit in being able to have a spectator choose ANY card or ANY number. The well known "Phil" effect was originally done in Protea cards from South Africa, and there were limitations (75 cards approx) so you couldn't go all the way through the pack. With the new Phoenix Double Decker cards those limitations are blown to bits.

So the DD is a tool - and if used for the right job I think it is a winner all the way. You don't use every tool for every job, and every tool has it's own advantages or limitations.

Posted: Feb 11, 2011 7:51pm
THIN... NOT THINK
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Zebaztian
View Profile
Special user
The Netherlands
655 Posts

Profile of Zebaztian
Quote:
On 2011-02-11 19:51, saysold1 wrote:
THIN... NOT THINK Smile

Today the cards are super think, yesterday they were super thought.

I completely agree with Saysold1.
My mind reading routines: http://www.basjongenelen.nl/goocheltrucs/. Scroll a bit down to the English routines.
motown
View Profile
Inner circle
Atlanta by way of Detroit
6022 Posts

Profile of motown
There's an effect Mathieu Bich does on his close-up DVD that would be perfect for these cards and would improve the way Bich does it.
Cards are spread out on a table and the spectator take a bottle and moving it around over the cards lands on one. It's pushed out from the group
and shown. This card matches a card in the bottle.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
rowdymagi5
View Profile
Inner circle
Virginia
3367 Posts

Profile of rowdymagi5
Im surprised that more people havent found some ingenious uses for this deck.
saysold1
View Profile
Eternal Order
Recovering Cafe addict with only
10636 Posts

Profile of saysold1
I think many of the working pros have - but they would prefer not to share them Smile

Here is a link to the main discussion of this deck - lots of good info here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=218&115

With a little bit of thought there are many possibilities. Cardshark offers a FREE PDF download of many suggested effects possible with the Double Deeckers - here is a link.

http://www.phoenixdeck.com/Routines%20fo......cker.pdf

You may order this deck in a number of different ways (with 1 one Fo**e, 2 way, blue/blue, red/red, red/blue etc) - make sure you order it the way you want it for the effect you seek:
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
rowdymagi5
View Profile
Inner circle
Virginia
3367 Posts

Profile of rowdymagi5
Quote:
On 2011-02-16 10:49, saysold1 wrote:
I think many of the working pros have - but they would prefer not to share them Smile

Here is a link to the main discussion of this deck - lots of good info here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=218&115

With a little bit of thought there are many possibilities. Cardshark offers a FREE PDF download of many suggested effects possible with the Double Deeckers - here is a link.

http://www.phoenixdeck.com/Routines%20fo......cker.pdf

You may order this deck in a number of different ways (with 1 one Fo**e, 2 way, blue/blue, red/red, red/blue etc) - make sure you order it the way you want it for the effect you seek:


Great information! Thank-you!
Topcliffe
View Profile
New user
New Orleans, LA
67 Posts

Profile of Topcliffe
I know this thread is several years old, but I have a question about the DD (I have two Cardshark effects that use it, don't want to name them for fear of revealing too much). This is not a complaint -- I love the two effects that I have -- it's more a mathematical conundrum that's nagging at me. Namely: each pair, together, is considerably thinner and more flexible than a single card from a normal deck. Now, it seems to me that it would stand to reason than if each individual card of a pair were exactly half the thickness of a single regular card, the two cards put together would have the same thickness as a regular card, and that the deck would still be able to fit comfortably into a card box. Yet this isn't the case, and that's what I'm curious about. I imagine there are factors that I'm not taking into consideration in terms of the production technology, but I'm wondering if it's possible to make a DD in which each pair, together, feels like one regular card. Many thanks in advance for any insights!
DelMagic
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of DelMagic
While I base my observations on the packing of molecules on a micro scale, I am confident they are important when discussing macroscopic objects such as playing cards.

The idea that needs to be considered is free volume. Whether you are talking about molecules or playing cards, the items do not pack together perfectly even though they may be in close proximity to one another. Of course the packing efficiency varies from item to item, but there is always extra free volume that is created whether you are talking about packing sodium molecules or playing cards.

The free volume occurs in the interface regions where two distinct objects are in close proximity. In a standard deck of 52-cards, there are 51 interface regions. In the double-deckers, there are 103 interface regions. The extra interface regions add unexpected free volume which equals added thickness. Therefore, it makes sense that the 52 double-decker card pairs which are less thick than an individual standard card match the full regular deck thickness. Also, the fact that cards aren't perfectly flat but have a slight bend adds to the extra free volume/ thickness as well.

I'll try to do some measurements with a micrometer tomorrow to see if I can detect the effect.
CartoucheNL
View Profile
New user
Eindhoven, The Netherlands
35 Posts

Profile of CartoucheNL
Another way to explain this the following: Imagine a normal playing card. Card spl****s can tell you that a card consists of several layers. Mostly three, I believe. Now, this is important: The layers are GLUED together to form one card.

Now take a DD card. This is, if I am not mistaken a one layer card. Two of them have about exactly the same thickness as one normal card, but...., they are not glued together. That means that if you bend the two cards, there is room for the top card to slide on the surface of the bottom card.

One is inclined to think that proof of this is to just glue two DD's together. Still you will find that this bends slightly easier than one normal card. To explain that we go back to my first line. Normal cards are made of THREE layers, thus creating cardboard stock. DD's are made more of paper stock.

You don't believe me, or just want to check this?: A business card over here (Netherlands) is made of cardboard 300 grs/sqm. Now if you take a normal piece of paper from the printer (over here 80 grs/sqm) and cut four business card formatted pieces from it. Stack those and now compare them to the business card. Although the thickness of the business card is slightly less than the four loose pieces, 300 vs 320, you will notice that the four pieces still seem more flexible than the one thinner card. Glueing them together solves most of this problem.

So there you have it.
CartoucheNL
View Profile
New user
Eindhoven, The Netherlands
35 Posts

Profile of CartoucheNL
Back on topic: How do you use them? Well I have got several versions of the original Trilogy, but when the DD's came out, I created the effect using those. Now the past week I got my freshly printed DD Parlour size cards and again did the same with those.
Since I do believe in paying the inventor for his efforts, I kept the originals and have not sold them off to someone else.

In time I will probably get me a Brainwave type !@#$e deck with those or an Ultimate Brainwave.
Jerry
View Profile
Inner circle
Some where in Florida
1201 Posts

Profile of Jerry
This is perfect for a Mene-Tekel deck. This is going to be my go to deck. With the modifications it can be a Trilby, Sven, Mirage, POP-Eye every deck!

Start with this:

The Self-Contained Card Delivery System (Mene Tekel Magic Maximized) by Shawn Evans - Book

Encyclopedia of Card Tricks by Jean Hugard - Book
Page 256

Mene Tekel Miracles (Download) by Nathan Kranzo
The video is the worst, I wish he would re-shoot this.

ESCORIAL Manuscript (2002) by R. Mueller

I could have sworn I purchased this deck at the Genii convention, and I can't find it now.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » Phoenix Double Decker Cards - How Are You Using Them? (1 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.59 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL