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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Google me this: what do you expect not to find?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote: all the glorious, high-quality, magical props and apparatus of yesteryear for sale. That stuff has all devolved into cheap plastic crap these days, or is on ebay for un-godly over-inflated prices...
On 2011-03-06 17:50, Jonathan Townsend wrote: "Quality", as a general standard in magic, is something I rarely expect to find anymore.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Most of the working goodies are either still in use by workers or in collections.
They do come up for auction/sale on occasion which are often publicized on the internet ( google gets you there ) But what "secrets" in magic do you not expect to find?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote: Well.... There are secrets, and there are secrets -and then there is methodology exposed!
On 2011-03-06 19:31, Jonathan Townsend wrote: I've got enough magic secrets to last me the rest of my life, bought and paid for. But cool new (old) toys are very precious and rare.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-06 17:50, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Everything I was not looking for! Once mis-typed "RedCross.org" and used .com instead. At least I think it was that. Took me to a porn site... It was hours before I could figure out how to get out of there...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
I don't understand those who defend internet exposure by citing it does not matter with increased cleaverness with said exposed ideas. If this is true then I invite you to expose every trick you do and follow it up a more cleaver "mystery". I doubt the audience reaction will be more if interest in your puzzle then amazing effect
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-07 13:35, Joshua Barrett wrote: How do we make it stop?
Wes
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-07 13:35, Joshua Barrett wrote: Actually, Dai Vernon did this twice with two different multiple-phase effects, and I'm sure he did it with others. He'd do 75% of the trick, then expose one method that could make it possible, and then follow it up with something that made it look impossible that the one method could have anything to do with it. In both cases, the method he'd expose would basically be an intuitive solution for the audience at that point. It's possible that there's a more graceful way of going about handling that suspicion -- many people have opined that Vernon was a much better creator/thinker than performer -- but for what it's worth, that bit of exposure didn't seem to hurt him any.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
I understand the false explanation. that is quite different then a real explanation.
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Keeping in the traditions of the magic community, if I knew that I couldn't tell you unless you paid 29.95 for the dvd
Quote:
On 2011-03-07 14:05, Wes65 wrote: |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-07 16:20, Joshua Barrett wrote: No, he was exposing techniques he was actually using.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Only to be proven wrong in the next sequence. It is a sucker technique. If I show you a coin across then explain it your telling me that my spellbound routine will be just as good as if I hadnt explained the previous? I don't think so. Routining a sucker explanation is much different then a out right expose. The audience will easy assume I hold out just as before. Even if I use a gaffas, in thier mind they believe they know
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-07 19:49, Joshua Barrett wrote: Not entirely. If you take a good look at his routines, you'll find one in which the exact same technique is used again. Quote:
If I show you a coin across then explain it your telling me that my spellbound routine will be just as good as if I hadnt explained the previous? I don't think so. Routining a sucker explanation is much different then a out right expose. The audience will easy assume I hold out just as before. Even if I use a gaffas, in thier mind they believe they know The point is to use the exposed techniques intelligently. Exposed techniques set up expectations of what to look for, and you can use that to your advantage by subverting those expectations. Set aside spellbound for a second, since there are going to be different suspicions in play depending upon the ways you execute different effects. A coins across might get them thinking that you're sneaking coins from one hand to the other without their knowledge. A spellbound, on the other hand, might get them thinking that you're working with two coins. It'd be hard to leverage the suspicions of one against the other. Rather, consider a four phase coins across. What suspicion could you foster with the first three coins, that you can trump with the last coin? You don't have to be as obvious as those who expose it, but at the same time, you could probably use that sort of exposure to your advantage. Alternately, if you don't like the idea of exposing a legitimate technique, you could take the John Carney/Ricky Jay route, where you expose what other magicians might be doing, feinting the action, and then following it up by saying "Of course, I do no such thing." This would be a more graceful way of addressing suspicions without really hurting the mystery. This isn't a defense of exposure on Youtube. It's just to point out that we're not as helpless as we might think in combatting it.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
So if someone's only interest is to post videos exposing magic they only need to pay the 29.95 first?
Quote: On 2011-03-07 16:21, Joshua Barrett wrote:
Wes
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Andrew, I understand what you are saying.... my comments are toward blantant exposure, not really trying to argue the merits using exposure in a routine.
wes, is this not the current excepted practice? just trying to get people to think. We complain about exposure, but we don't complain about 50 dollar single trick dvd's many of which that are just rehashes of old material. why is it not exposure when someone pays for a trick, vs watches the explanation on youtube? ( forget about paying the creator for his work a moment ) |
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mumford Special user 652 Posts |
By paying the shopper has demonstrated an interest and likely will try to learn and perform. Not the same as seeing how something is done for free out of idle curiosity. Reading a book is also exposure, but the reader is also investing something more than just letting a youtube wash over them, or flipping channels and spending a momemt with the Masked one with very little personal investment. How did you become interested or start learning?
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
Right, but how do we get the cat back in the bag?
Wes
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-08 09:56, mumford wrote: So if I give a trick I created away for free I am wrong because someone has not proved thier interest with monatry backing? I am not saying a nessecerly disagree with you. Im saying lets brighten the prespective and be realistic Quote:
On 2011-03-08 10:10, Wes65 wrote: Wes, here is what I think. People have been "giving away" or "exposing" magic to each other from the start of the first magic club or magic shop. Everytime I visit friends that work in the local shops we always show each other things that we learned and explanations. Is that wrong? well according to many it may be, but it is also the norm. Always has been always will be. The Problem is now these little sharing sessions have expanded out of the private , or semi-private area, and into the self-broadcasting realm. The way the magicians hold secrets has become rather antiquated. Magicians want to hold secrets in a era when the US gov can't keep secrets off of wikileaks. its a era of information sharing. I wish I knew the ultimate answer to this. I think creative thinking is needed, and less creative marketing to make money from effects. Magic is marketed to gain interest of the masses to buy the products. If this was not so, ellusionist or T11 would not exist. maybe the answer is to stop marketing products and start sharing amongst ourselves? I doubt the need for green would ever allow that. But we live in a world where secrets need to be secret to remain that way. |
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
It might well be that we need to change the way effects are marketed. The only way that will happen is if we all refuse to buy from those who market in ways that lead to exposure.
Wes
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-08 22:45, Wes65 wrote: Simple way to test that - post the stuff on the internet and if non-magicians can understand it - it's exposure and can't be put on the market inside magic.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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