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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Ya know dolphins are pretty smart as it works out. They can, after only being in captivity for a couple of weeks, train people to stand on the edge of the pool and throw them fish.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Uhhh... what are you talking about Danny?
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-05 00:58, Dannydoyle wrote: HAHA! Personally, I have no idea what this has to do with anything but it made my day. I haven't read this entire thread (although I will in just a moment). However, it seems that you keep asking questions with a consistent tone/theme. Therefore, there are two books I'd recommend you to read, because it may give you a much clearer picture as to what people are trying to tell you (they are both cheap on amazon). The first book is Win the Crowd by Steve Cohen (the millionaires magician). This book is fantastic because it teaches the reader on what creates a consistent image for a performer. Your website displays a very inconsistent image. It isn't your logo necessarily, it is the fact that you come off as a darker performer (nothing wrong with that) who eats fire, etc. However, you are also offering to do kids shows as well. That is not a consistent thing. Kids like Barney because he's cute and fun. They don't like him because he eats fire. Win the Crowd gives great tips to create a consistent image and is a quick read. The second book is called FOCUS - The Future of Your Company Depends on it. This was actually a book that Steve Cohen suggests to read in the back of Win the Crowd. It is quite an intricate read, but it gives great advice on creating a business with a consistent product. It discusses how many companies try to please everyone, and be everything to everyone. That takes too much effort and is not possible to begin with. I'm sure you're a great performer and your audiences appreciate you. If you create a consistent image, you can (in time) be booking the right kind of shows on a regular basis. If you have no problem working from many different angles, then create separate websites for those audiences, because a mother shopping for her son's 5th birthday will not hire you to breathe fire. A booker for a festival probably will. |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Good Advice Dave.
I think one issue is that my website is pretty new, and I don't think it has had the chance to get or push away anyone. All my gigs have been word of mouth or passed on from other performers or my own leg work. I don't know how many people in MT are looking on the internet for people like me. There just isn't that many people and sometimes MT is behind the times. People still use phone books. shudder. lol, so since my website and little vids are your only reference, people think I'm as crappy a performer as my web and video editing skills... maybe I'm wrong... |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-05 11:21, Close.Up.Dave wrote: It had nothing to do with anything really. Just making a point about perception.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Okay so after reading through the whole thread, I stick by my initial post. It was very consistent with what others had to say, and that is because the advice is sound.
However, now that I understand your perspective a little bit more, I'd like to throw in a few more things. First, I know that you take pride in your act and that's a good thing. Also, I think its good that you are booking these kids shows with a darker undertone. This is a good thing because it means you understand that you want to come across as a cool guy that kids can relate to. This is a unique selling position. However, I heard you mention Criss Angel and Dan Sperry as being cool to kids. While this is true, neither of those performers do kids shows! You are an individual, and if you want to come across as the cool guy, then that is a great starting point for sales. I would focus this to NOT being "kids" shows. You can relate to the teen crowd, and that may book you more shows if you focus your energy on marketing to places and parents with teens. Second, its very clear to me that you don't have marketing or sales experiences (at least online). However, there are ways to learn this. There are many books on the subject, both magic and non-magic themed. I would go to a website of a well respected performer and learn from what he has. I did this for a long time, and when it finally came time to do copywriting in my classes, I was well ahead of the game. If you need help with this, find a college that has students looking for experience. I'm Montana has a university with students wanting practice. Third, I think you should rethink the way you are presenting yourself in terms of sales. If you are more focused on having people be about YOU, then make your website show that. Don't make it about the kid, adult, edgy, etc. Make a website about you as a performer. If a person wants you for their kids show, then they will hire you. Be focused on selling you, and the benefit of hiring you for their event. Do not feel the need to assimilate to the way other magicians set up their businesses. Practice good sales, have a good looking website, and know what you are offering, and you will sell shows. Lastly, I like the hair. Its unique, and dreads are cool. It may not be what a CEO is looking for. However, if you are in the business of selling you, then that is a part of who you are. Dave |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kameron
I did a search of magicians in Billings Mt. and it seems that your only competition is your father. I just can't imagine that tweeking your web site will change anything for you. You have maxed out your territory, and you can't get blood out of a stone. We have townships around here that have a larger population than there is in Billings.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Al, you are probably right. He is my only competition. He does bigger shows cause he bought the bigger illusions, but other than that I'm not sure what to do. I don't WANT to do the big stuff. That's not my style.
My current attack strategy (if I havent maxed out my territory) is advertising on Google, Facebook, soon to be Groupon (should have a featured groupon in a few weeks), and LOTS of lessons. I am offering free lessons to schools, libraries, and other organizations in hopes too gather intrest in paid lessons. I'm also waiting on a few restaurants for a steady gig. If I got a few nights at a restaurant, a few steady lessons a week, and a birthday party I'd be making DOUBLE what I'm making now. A little backround, I worked at a fast food joint for 5 years, up to manager, left to work at the shop with my father, the economy forced him to downsize so now I'm back at my crappy fast food job as a nobody vs management. The rollercoaster of employment makes me want to give this magic gig a shot... Like I said I'm waiting for the restaurant, and groupon HOPEFULLY gets me flooded in kids lessons and some shows...At least exposure. I've seen Groupons sell a few hundred items in a day... |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Dave: Good advice... a few responses:
Quote:
I heard you mention Criss Angel and Dan Sperry as being cool to kids. While this is true, neither of those performers do kids shows! True, but that's what people want here. Kids shows. My thought is, Kids (6-12) are watching Criss Angel. They ask their mom for a magician for their birthday. If I show up with hippity hop rabbits I will be slaughtered. I'm not saying I want to be like them, I'm saying this is what kids (and parents for their kids) want. They want someone cool, not silly. I DO hippity hop rabbits, but when I do a younger kids show. And the fire is tasteful, not creepy. Quote:
Lastly, I like the hair. Its unique, and dreads are cool. It may not be what a CEO is looking for. LOL honestly I get lots of questions at almost every show I do about my hair! Gets them talking to me. And lately it's been too long and gets in my face. If I do a show it's often in a ponytail. Can't hardly tell it's dreads unless you look closer... |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kameron
One night in a restaurant will definitely make people think of hiring a magician, but after doing a search of Montana magicians I noticed that there arn't any magicians in Montana. No work is the main reason why young people all over the country are moving to the big city. I'm beginning to think that your web site is just fine as it is, and what you really need is for someone to discover gold in Billings.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Kameron,
Do you work any of the preschools and daycare centers in the area? Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Lol... I agree Al! If I move though then I have to compete with you guys! Seriously my wife doesn't like the thought of moving away from her family... My only other thought is to offer More and different as well as travel. Diversify. As much as people think I shouldn't, The west is kinda how it used to be. People had multiple professions to make it...
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Tom, I have thought of that. I've done a few here and there, but I'm not sure how to go about it. The ages seem to range a LOT. I don't know if I can do preschool age... maybe I don't know enough about daycare magic...
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-05 12:41, Kameron Messmer wrote: Have the parents told you, "I want you to be Criss Angel and so does my son?" Sure everyone loves celebrities, but you are neither a celebrity or Criss Angel. Nor should you be pretending to offer the same thing. Do you really want to be the person that people go to because they couldn't get their first choice? They want a good magic show done by YOU, not a sub-par version of someone else's show or personality. Again, you are YOU. Sell YOU. YOU are not Criss Angel. YOU are cool, you don't have to be like someone else to get the show. You may not do hippity hop rabbits, you do a routine with red spongeballs because you kill clowns (or whatever). Do not discount an entire routine because you are not being creative enough to suit it to your style. I only have one question for you: What would Kameron Messmer do? |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Im not trying to be Criss, I'm just saying I have to be a bit cooler than Magic used to be. If that makes sense. Im not trying to be a nock off. I have been doing this before I heard or Criss.
And incidentally I DO HHR and sponge balls. not discounting them at all. I LOVE doing them but I usually do it for my younger shows. Obviously some stuff plays better to some ages. And I think I'm portraying myself online darker than I am. It's all fake. During shows I smile, laugh, act silly, etc. I am really a cuddly nerdy kid. I just have dreads and have a black Fubu tux. It's made me "cool" or at least cool looking to appeal to kids and teens and adults. Maybe I'm just trying to look darker in my website than my shows actually are. I'm not sure how to portray that though... |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Kameron,
Kids don't remember how magic 'use' to be. That's you doing the remembering. By cutting out the younger ages, you cutting your own throat. You making the kid show market extremely small. And that makes it very hard to create more demand. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kameron
Just because I am 65 years old, and wear brightly colored clothes don't assume I am an old fashion magician. There is absolutely nothing off the rack about my show, and before I did kiddie shows I was a stand up comedian for 10 years. At the comedy clubs that I worked at I was always the oldest person in the room, and the whole audience was your age.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
I'm not cutting them out. I know I need to, it's just kids under 5 or so I'm iffy on. That's a bit too young for a 1/2 hour/45 min show IMO.
As far as remembering, I mean things are getting edgier. I think 50 years ago you could do some of the stuff for 10 year old's that would get you killed today. They've seen magic on TV that no one did even 30 or 40 years ago. These are the Ellusionist kids. The internet age kids where they've seen more than their adult counterparts did at their age. The Criss Angel problem. When a 12 year old sees him flying, walking on water and run over by a steamroller what is this guy pulling a rabbit out of his hat. Not that I'm copying him, or aspiring to be him. I'm not that impressed with him. Too much T.V. "magic". I've seen the Vegas show with dancing and costumes. Entertaining, but the magic was the same stuff Copperfield does. I didn't see the same stuff he does in his show... I digress.. I still and doing my own thing and being my own person, I'm just saying I have to up my ante now that the world has changed and up it as well... |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Al, I think we've both judged each other based on what we've seen on the internet. my bad. From what I've seen of you though I don't doubt you are a great performer. I don't think you're old fashioned.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I do have to say that if you are in a situation like you are, being "unique" may or may not be a good thing. What I mean is you have the right idea. Sort of when they call and say "what can you do?" you want to be able to say "what do you need?". In your situation it is almost a necessity. Sort of a utility infielder. Not a bad plan as I said.
In your situation this seems perfectly valid as a business plan. BUT consider that being too "unique" may drive some of the very small market away from you instead of driving them to you. I am not saying it is bad or good, I am saying it might happen. Business is a funny thing, and it does not take too many mistakes in such a small area to cripple yourself. Tread lightly is all I am saying.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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