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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-04 11:26, TomBoleware wrote: EXACTLY what I was going for.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
"Hi-yo, Silver! Away!"
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Heba-Haba Al used to say "If you have to ask that question, you probably aren't ready to hear the answer". The dude was brilliant. Oh and he never ONCE tried to be "tactful".
Sorry but look at your act. Right where the rubber meets the road you absolutely MUST be able to be worth someone pulling 2 grand out of their pocket and handing it to you. You want sports car prices, and offer compact car quality. Unfortunately you can not do that. Not simply because your hair is different and you are "unique". Oh and incidently NOTHING about your videos, with the exception of your look says you are unique. (And even that is a knock off.) You end up being a guy who may dress a bit different, doing the EXACT SAME TRICKS! This in no way makes you unique, it makes you lazy. You simply can not buy "unique", it must be attained. Having a attitude does not make you "edgy" it makes you unpleasant to talk to. But what do I know?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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G. Batson Regular user 147 Posts |
I won't give advice. Many here have provided great tips. Right now your site advertises about a $200 act. Take the advice given and you will improve that...
G. |
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Andrew Zuber Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 3014 Posts |
So, he apologizes for being touchy, admits he KNOWS he's been responding that way, explains why...and people continue to rip into him anyway. How does that make sense?
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Kameron
I'm curious, who are your fathers magic shop customers? There are very few small communities that can support a magic shop.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
It makes sense because he doesn't seem to be understanding it. People here offer their insights in an effort to help him to get it.
To follow up on a point Danny made, try to look at other $2000.00 acts. Ask yourself if you are on that level? Can you see the differences? Would you be willing to pay $2000.00 for what you offer? What is different from their act, image and perception versus yours? What makes their value worth the 2K? What do you need to do to be perceived, accepted and execute at the same level or better? Anyone can do a 45, 60 or 90 minute show, what makes your show worth 2K? Some things you can buy such as props, costumes, hairdo, signage, promo photos and materials, web sites, marketing, etc., other things you have to acquire - such as performing experience, knowledge, personality, comfort, confidence, audience management, reputation, business and marketing skills, etc. (other things like image and perceived value could actually be both). Together these determine your value to a buying customer. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-04 15:11, Andrew Zuber wrote: Ummm nobody "rips" him, they keep telling the truth. Plus we have all seen the "oh I am sorry bit before from a gaggle of children. It is possibe we are tired of it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
I KNOW I am not worth 2k. I don't think I will be any time soon. It was a general question that started with some advice about being worth 2k. It was an example. Not specific. I know I'm not "great" yet. It was about giving the client a show worth more than you're charging. It kinda went off into a wild "here's what's wrong with your site, act, image etc." that's fine, but not really what I was looking for. Already went through that all in another thread. This was supposed to be a general question thread about how to make a show worth more to a client.
Im perfectly happy being a small magician for now. If I do 4-5 shows a week I'll be happy for now. It's better than what I have now. I retract my previous question. My new one is "how do I book 4-5 shows a week?" Kids shows, bars, whatever. I know I cant jump to $2000 instantly. I'll work my way up. Al: It started as a magic shop, then grew into a costume and tux store as well. They have novelties and stuff like that as well. The magic customers are fewer by far. You're right, it is hard to support a magic shop. that's why he does everything else... If you think I'M a Jack of all trades you should meet him. He sings, drums, does magic, runs a business, fixes electronics, edits a radio show to name a few things... I'm mellow compared to his jackery! |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Kameron -
Other questions you might considering asking are "What sort of performers get what fees for shows?" (Jim Snack has talked about this before in posts.) For example, I have heard of children's birthday entertainers making anywhere from $50 to $600 per show. It depends on who they are, how well known they are, where they are, etc. And that's just for children's birthdays. You might seek out the websites and other info about performers in different prices ranges, so you can learn. But the next question to ask after how much do they get paid, is "How often do they perform?" There may be some that get $375 for a birthday show, but really only perform a dozen of them per year. On the other hand there might be another performer who gets $175 for a birthday show, but performs 150 per year. They might charge less per show, but make it up in volume. Those are just a couple of factors. Now I've used birthday shows as an example. If you really want to look at performers who get $2000 per show, then you need to research the markets they work (not children's birthdays, obviously), who these performers are, and how often they really perform. These pieces of info might give you clues. Not so you can steal their customers, but so you can learn by their modelling. Also note, many performers will not want to talk about this sensitive information out in the open on the forums. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
I understand what you are saying, and I think the reason things have progressed here are from the logical ways people respond here. You ask the question, this leads people to believe that you have an interest in this, people then click on your avatar and go to your web site, then the first thing that immediately comes to mind after viewing the site is, this is in no way a web site or performer worth $2000.00. Then the next logical thought is to bring this to your attention and offer your helpful information on how to improve toward the goal expressed in the original question asked.
The advice had been great. Many others I'm sure have learned some valuable information from this thread. I have purchased books with less valuable info that what has been offered on this thread. We know you don't consider yourself a 2K entertainer. Truth be told you probably will never be a 2K (per gig) entertainer in just your local market (not just you, anyone in your area) as their is not much on an industry or market for 2K level acts. Perhaps some regional corporate things but not any kind of consistent regular work. We get that too. This info is offer to present you with the resulting fork in the road-type decision. To become a 2K act (when you are ready and on that level) you either have to relocate to a market that could support this level of an ace, or market yourself outside of just your local area and be willing to accept non-local dates and travel. The other option is to then adapt your act and business to the market in which you exist. Those are the options. What you decide from here is up to you but based on these realities. There is nothing wrong with being a kids or family entertainer, that occasionally does other events when offered. You do have several uniquenesses to living in "The Magic City". With an area population range of between 100,00-150,000 there are several performance venue options available. If you play on those things combined with establishing a good kids/family party operation you should be able to be quite comfortable in your area. Once such benefit is it is extremely easy to establish yourself the a top entertainer in a market of that size, as long as you don't confuse the public (which is a danger and also very easy to do in a small market) You should use these benefits of your area to your advantage and play off of these strengths. |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Wow lots of great advice indeed.
I would point out that mindpro is on target and let me make a point my friend Duane laflin lives in Montana but makes his living with magic mostly outside of montana. now he is leagues above many of us here but the point is that your area does limit you much more then those of us living in big cities. you got lots of info and food for thought now and we all look forward to seeing you succeed and the changes you make to your website and your act. success is yours for the taking! have fun in what ever you do my friend sam ps and I am still on your side with the fire eating for your kids parties (with in reason) as they are not like kids outside of montana LOL
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-04 16:37, Donald Dunphy wrote: I believe it was Anton Zellmann that told me he made over a million dollars with only three customers working less than twenty five days a year (if I remembering correctly). I think he also told me he's only had something like 13 clients over the past twenty years making this level of income steadily. |
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rookrulz New user 91 Posts |
Kameron,
Wow, all of this has been awesome. There are so many bits of great advice here. I have two bits of advice and it goes back to my original post in this thread but I will give you some great ideas. 1. If you want to book 4-5 shows a week then the kid show market is for you BUT you must listen to this next bit of advice in order for it to work. You have to change your act and make a new video. You cannot eat fire, lay on glass, and use french choppers in your show. Let me explain. That stuff works for kids 12 years and up BUT it will NOT work for kids 10 years and younger. What percentage of the birthday party business are kids 12 years and up??? Maybe 10 percent. 90 percent are going to be kids ages 4 to 7. So, you MUST cater to them. First rule of thumb is not to do the show that YOU want to do but what your CUSTOMER wants. So, take out all of the weird stuff and make your site fun. Trust me on this Kameron, birthday parties are ALL I perform and I perform over 450 of them a year. You can take my word for it or not. BTW, once you have FIRMLY made yourself the premier kid show magician and you have a great reputation, THEN think about doing the weird stuff again. 2. I don't know what your full time job is but I know that you are at least an entertainer. My guess is that you are NOT a professional graphic artist specializing in web design. If that is the case, THEN DON"T DO YOUR OWN WEB SITE. It will look like an amateur. Sounds like you spend a lot of time, and hardship, working on your site. Delegate this to an expert. FREE ADVICE:: Go to Guru.com and put in a bid for someone to create your web site for you. You will find professionals willing to do this for only $200 to $300. Take the income you make for one or two of your shows this week and invest it back into your business. That's it. 2 bits of advice that will turn your world around if you do it. But........will you do it????? Most people don't and then complain about why they are not making enough money in this business. Louis Meyer |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-04 15:25, Mindpro wrote: This is a great observation, Mindpro! There are lots of great posts on this thread. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
Let me just take this one step further. I just had a very big name Las Vegas magician here at the house and showed him this thread and he immediately made a great point no one has yet to bring up. After stating it was a shame this young magician wasn't getting the excellent advice being offered to him, he said this guy seems to be too focused (on the wrong thing) on his look and being different. Then the next immediate thought he said was "the last thing you want is for people to remember him as the strange looking guy, and not remember anything about his magic or talent." Great thoughts.
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Don't worry, People remember me and my talent. Everywhere I go people notice me and say "That's the magician" or "the guy that stuck fire in his mouth" I am remembered. and I get it. It's a bit more to sift through than I was anticipating.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I agree there is a ton of good information in this thread.
If I had to sum it up and add a thought it would be: They say there are only three ways to sell more. 1. Do more right. 2. Do less wrong. 3. Do both. Most remain average because they never get past number one. Constantly looking for ways to do more right (number one) without moving on to number two doesn't really move you forward. You just swapping ideas and making new mistakes. Always go for three, because it is impossible to fail when you commit to number three. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Kameron Wrote: “My new one is "how do I book 4-5 shows a week?" Kids shows, bars, whatever.”
Okay, I’ll foray into the fray one more time. If Danny can try to make a point I may as well to. No brag here, just fact. I’ve had very long time clients like Bear Sterns (who I apparently made vanish) Boarders Books, Time-Life, American Dairy Association, Clorox, United Way, Marriott Corp, The Playboy Clubs, and so forth. I’ve booked single shows with them for between $,2000 and $6,000 and been brought back again, AND I’m not one of the top tier in terms of my fees. Danny has even more smarts than I do. I coach and direct magicians, variety entertainers, and actors on performance, presentation, and marketing at an average of $85.00 per-hour with four hour minimums. I may be a $(^*$*#%* but took a good amount of time to examine your home page, gather my thoughts, write them down, and post them. Mostly because I want to see good magic done now and in the future, that’s also why I wrote a successful book on this last Fall. One *begins* to book four or five shows a week, in *whatever* venues by taking the same steps that are needed to book shows at $2,000 each. The key is ONE step at a time. There are a lot of things you’re doing to sabotage yourself, you’re putting time, effort, and money into your business, but you’re working hard… not smart… not your fault, it takes years of experience to work smarter and better. We have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth so we can learn by speaking only one-fifth the time and using the other four parts. That said, in whatever tone the advice has been given, kind, frank, mean, serious, funny…. this advice is what CAN help you to get more shows (yes, in your area) for more money, and gigs that are more fulfilling as well as profitable. Not as some generic guy, but as the *best* of you. You’ve said you hate your day job? You can do more shows and in two or three years, with direction and effort, be earning more than your day job doing what you want… magic! No, you can still be YOU, not what you think we want you to be… after all clones don’t make successful entertainers. However, you have to be those PARTS of you which are appealing, marketable, desirable, commercial in your niche, and practical. I am “me” and I was surprised that I was successful doing the kind of entertainment I believed in. I’ve sent my book at no charge to a few other guys on the Café who really wanted to move ahead, really were dedicated, and wanted to bring their magic up to the level of Art. You’re entire reaction to all our work here is not in that category as far as I’m concerned, I will give you the titles of several magic, performance, and business books I think will help you (including mine) but you’d have to find and buy them yourself to appreciate them. There are some *right* things about what you’re doing and how you’re performing and approaching business (like I said, I like your logo) but there are a lot of things you’re doing almost as your worst enemy. Print out this ENTIRE thread, put it in a drawer for a month, then re-read it word for word, as if it was general advice not intended for you personally. You’ll have projects for the next two years. Someone said: “Would you rather be happy or right.” that question sums if up for me, you can be “right” all you want here, or you can be “happy” love your craft, ditch your bad job, and give the gift of entertainment. Frankly I can’t wait to see the next (*E$&*@&@&^ you decide to take your frustration out on here. Magically, Walt |
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
My logo isn't too scary for kids?
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