The Kirkendall reel is a fair bit smaller than the El Duco reel, where the Kirkendall is roughly the size of a U.S. half dollar, and the El Duco is about the size of a U.S. silver dollar. Both operate very smoothly and quietly and I have never had problems with either one of them. The El Duco reel I have has a locking feature as well as the finger brake where the Kirkendall only has the finger brake. Unless I have an advanced set-up requiring the use of the locking mechanism on the El Duco reel, I never use that feature outside of that. The El Duco reel has a very nice way to help preserve the filament in the way that its exit hole is made of nylon and it sits at an angle, rather than straight on from the center of the reel body. Even so, I have never had any issues with the Kirkendall filament. Both reels (as with any other reel out there) offer you the ability to customize the attachment apparatus.

I cannot say I like either of the reels better than the other because they both have all of the desirable features that I need in a reel - they work and the work well and as a bonus, they are both quiet. The only difference I can really find, besides the locking mechanism on the El Duco reel, is the price. The Kirkendall is cheaper, but both are well worth their cost.

I hope this information is useful to you.

Thank you - very helpful. Sounds like the smaller size may make the Kirkendall reel preferable in some circumstances.

Yes, it really does come down to personal preference in that matter. Either way you go, you will be happy with your choice!

I find that the size of the Kirkendall is far preferable. I have one of the new Kirkendalls and it is beautifully put together but the thread did need changing, very poor quality.

Can someone tell me about the line used for a "standard" reel such as the Kirkendall or El Duco?
- Specifically in terms of thickness and visibility. Has it been designed/chosen to be almost undetectable to the eye or does one usually routine to avoid the line ever being visible?
- Can the line be replaced by say fishing line for example?

Thanks for all the help!

Kind Regards

Nicholas

Actually the P&L reel is a little smaller than the Kirkendall. It is a good reel but once you open it up you can see how much better engineered than the P&L which is a very good reel.

I will check on George's directions for the size he recommended. I think it was size 0. I would use a bonded nylon thread probably a size 69 or 72.
When you wrap the new line, pull a little line out of the hole on the side of the case. Then wrap the tight around the drum. That will put a little extra tension on the drum.

Richard

The thread used in the 1950's and 1960's is no longer made, and they do not use the same thickness identities any longer. The thread originally was a braided surgical thread, that is not made any longer.

As far as visible, it is very visible, that is why I made the reference to 3 pound clear fishing line above. I guess you missed it when you read the entire thread before posting your question.

At any rate the attention is on the silk, not the thread, that is where your attention should be when presenting an effect of this nature. Forget about the thread and your audience will also.

If you use clear fishing line, you need to mark it every few inches with a black magic marker to break up the shine pattern.

I think the bonded Nylon thread will work for you. It is very strong and pretty thin. I have used it on some floating things so you know it is strong and pretty invisble.

Bill is correct. If you handle it properly, the thread is hardly ever in view anyway.

Richard

Richard, what is bonded Nylon thread, never heard of it, can you give an example or a reference to a web site?

Thanks for the info. The reason I ask is because I am interested in using the reel for an alternative effect for which it is inevitable that parts of the thread will be seen. Since the thread can be replaced I am hoping this will work out, only one way to find out..

Thanks again!

N

When I do the Serpent Silk, there are twist that allow the thread to be seen, I see it because I know it is there and where to look. The audience shouldn't. All I can say is, I have seen the Serpent Silk performed many times by different performers and even when I know the method, I have never seen the thread. The tell tale most people do it wrong, and leave the end of the silk turned up. But the thread is invisible.

Lastly, I wild like to mention, this is a stage trick and not a close-up trick. Your audience should be at least 6 to 10 feet away from your performance. Reel magic is not for close-up work.

I know that Michael Ammar did it close-up on television, but his silk thru cup handle is the one exception, and others may not get the same results.

The bonded nylon thread is used a lot in upholstery work. I have also found now it is used in hair weaving. Size 69 would be a good size to start with in rethreading the reels. You may want to go a little heavier or thinner depending on your needs and use.

Here is a link to the Atlanta Thread company which carries several types. http://store.atlantathread.com/bony.html. You can also find it on ebay in a lot of places and in many colors though I would use black.

Kirkendall's original (according to his directions) was "a nylon industrial thread. You may use a nylong monofilament, a fine braided nylon baitcasting line, or (the BEST!) a silk gurgical suture thread. Contact you doctor or maybe apharmacist to obtain this lat material." I hope that helps.

Richard

Richard, Have you ever seen rod winding thread?? was curious if this looks close to what you are talking about. most tackle shops carry this to use as the winding around the eyelets on your fishing pole to hold them on then they shillack over them. I used it for the dancing can very tough and durable. was curious if you have seen it or used it at all and how this may compare.

Several of the rod winding thread is very similar. The most popular used to be the Rice's brand but they are out of business. It is all a bonded nylon twisted thread.

Richard

Does anyone know what reel Ammar was using on the DL show?

Can anyone offer some tips on how to make sure the tail end of the serpentine silk doesn't spring up before you let go?

Roper, I assumed that he was using the El-Duco reel, since that's the one he sells on his website. However, after seeing that performance, I bought a Kirkendale reel, so I could do the trick. I performed silk thru coffee mug all summer with this reel; worked great. I'm glad I didn't get the El-Duco, as the Kirkendale is smaller, and lovely for finger-palming.

Damian

Good Morning, Lachlan:

Concerning the end of the Serpentine silks curving up, it's easy to correct. As you're tying the knot in the silk (and at the same time extending the line of thread), simply catch two or three fingers between the silk and line. As you're tying the knot, the back of your hand is toward the audience, and then you rotate the hand (the hand that's not holding the reel) so that it's palm toward the audience. This little rotating action gives you 2 or 3 extra inches because you're extending the line further than the silk. So now the bottom of the silk will hang correctly and not bend upward.

I think this answers your question. If not, let me know if I misunderstood you.

Ron

Thanks Ron, I'll give that a try. I understand what you're saying.

Hey there! Does anyone have any suggestions on how to attach the reel to the silk? My friend inherited his fathers old magic, and gave some away to me, and I know how a Kirkendall reel, I'm just not quite sure how to work it as effectively without instructions
Thanks!