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Sammy J. Inner circle Castle Rock, Colorado 1786 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-05 08:02, Lawrence O wrote: With all due respect, Lawrence, I have a Tango Expanded Kennedy Clad Shell that I bought a few years ago. It is absolutely the worst shell I have ever seen. The relief is almost nonexistant. My Johnson Clad Kennedy shell is many times better. Addressing the other issues, I have WL CSB sets from both Schoolcraft and Lassen. The insert on the Lassen set is thicker, which I feel is somewhat important to me. The Schoolcraft set had a thinner insert and some black blemishes on the copper and brass sections. When I called Jamie I was told this is a pain to correct. Maybe I'm too picky, but I thought the coins would arrive corrected. I don't pay that much for coins with flaws, but I'm probably being a little too picky. I have a Schoolcraft C/S set with Kennedy 1964 halves that is very nice. I have two Triple Threat sets and a 3CM set that each have their advantages. Sammy
Sammy J. Teague
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Hare Veteran user 323 Posts |
Of all the various coin manufacturers, Tango definately has improved the most over the past several years. Their current work is quite nice- every bit as good, in my opinion, as Johnson is today, and of course, Tango has offered us some excellent new, innovative products the past couple of years as well. Things you can find nowhere else, that are extremely well thought out and super practical. They are on an upward trajectory as far as I'm concerned. I like to see a company that actually puts real effort and thought into improving, and who interact and listen to their customers. Tango is currently one of those.
"Better described in The Amateur Magician's Handbook"
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Hard to believe you old salts are perplexed with simple enough connect-the-dots here.
I paid homage to the craftsmen upfront and to end, hope that part was clear enough. I then angled off the road apiece but I wasn't in another land...C'mon man! Sorry for mixing Lassen with Thomas Wayne, how dare me. Darn, this is what happens whey you start playing with tricky coins. Seriously, just making an off comment based upon other recogntions, didn't mean to disrupt or "huh or even double huh" anybody here. Hopefully the larger points of my post as to these craftsmen and their doing good work and customer service was clearest.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Huh?
(Kidding, Marion... ) Jim |
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philip tilston New user 58 Posts |
I purchased a set of Morgans and shell from Mark Mason about a year ago (of JB Magic). I believe they are made by Bob Swadling. I have been very happy with them.
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Bob makes some of Mark's gaffed coins. I believe he used to make all or most of them, but more recently Mark has been using another machinist AFAIK. Not due to any problem with Bob Swadling's work, but because Mark's sales volume grew very large right about when Bob was looking to enjoy his semi-retirement a little more. And since Bob Swadling doesn’t hallmark his pieces it is impossible to identify which gaff maker made the ones you buy from Mark.
Jim |
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howie3 Regular user 107 Posts |
If I had the money to send I would go with Lassen.
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taller8 Inner circle Olympia, Washington 1087 Posts |
Consistency wise, Lassen, but I haven't experienced every coin gaffer out there.
Just Lassen, Schoolcraft, Swadling, and Johnson. I've seen newer Tango products that were not good. Every Lassen set I've bought have been perfect. Just my experience. |
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mattmagic149 Loyal user Austria 215 Posts |
Thx for sharing all your experiences.
I decided to order at Lassen, but is it normal that he isn't that costumer friendly? Cause I've wrote him an email with the exact things I want to order and that was 2 weeks ago and he didn't response. So I asked him what the matter was and he just answered "I am answering my mails asap!" Appears a little weird to me...
Practicing is like a bank, if you don't put anything in, you won't get anything out!
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Garrett Loyal user Missouri 258 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-15 08:39, mattmagic149 wrote: He was out of town all of last week. Todd himself would tell you that the best way to deal with him is by phone. He's a busy man, but if you keep putting a bug in his ear, he'll take care of you. And the finished product will ALWAYS be worth the wait! |
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mysto59 Loyal user Bethalto, Illinois 264 Posts |
I purchased a half dollar expanded s***l set from Roy kueppers and I have to say that the quality and service is top notch!
It's not the size of the wand that matters, it's the "magic" in it...
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Ryan Bliss Regular user 136 Posts |
I have a deans set, and they are absolutely amazing. However I have heard some great things about Todd. I have a Roy Kueppers shell, and its eh. I would defitely go with a Todd Lassen or Schoolcraft
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
Yea and he gets ton of E-Mails!!! And he's a one man operation! So he has to do it all him self!
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Not any of the craftsmen can supply every type of gaffs, so the question of who to choose seems emotional and vain to me.
Lassen cannot do Dean Dill's Blow up for you: it's not a technical capacity question, it is an legal one. On the other hand there are several gaffs and original rare coins sets that you cannot find with anybody else than Lassen. Similarly Tango is the only one to make the TUC in just silver (which makes it either a special shell or a double facer at will) or in silver and copper (with the coin looking like simply silver during a routine). Xavier Belmont is going great French superb coins with double shells and flipper and now his new exclusive Ambivalence, Mark Mason and Bob Swadling are the inventor of the flipper and should be preferred for this gaff and for his magnetic Okito box with opposing polarities (if only for ethical reason but also for their locking ones) None of us, except collectors, needs the quality of work of a Jaime Schoolcraft, a Todd Lassen, a Joe Porper, a Xavier Belmont,... for a standard set of four coins and a shell. Johnson Products and Tango offer a price to quality ratio that opens the coin world to beginners with very deceptive props. Roy Kupers and Auke Van Dokkum are also superb craftsmen. This means that the original poster should contact several of the names mentionned above and make up his mind as to who he feels more at ease with and recheck who offers the best service with the products that he is interested in. As can be read in the café, not everyone has the same unpleasant experience that I had with Todd Lassen, even if everybody seems to have good experiences with all the other craftsmen. Now gaffs are not science and the sets are (fortunately or unfortunately) not industrialized with any of the craftsmen and we need to entertain a good relationship with whoever we deal with so that if we meet a problem, we can solve it on a friendly basis. Mistakes do happen even with people like Lassen otherwise no magician could witness that they were treated well by Todd Lassen when some sets had arrived with a defect. I know that, for example, David Neighbors who is a kind of creative genius has a very good personal relationship with Lassen but that I'm not the only one to have had a bad one. Troy Hooser and Dean Dill on the other hand, who are not dumb either, feel more comfortable with Schoolcraft and if I heard of some defective sets, I didn't hear any complaint about his after sale service. Tango has a most friendly after sale service with a no questions asked exchange. I have no experience with Johnson products but can testify that Xavier Belmont is a very kind person and if, like everyone else he may have some defective pieces, he will manage to get them back and change them or redo them. Auke Van Dokkum and Roy Kuppers are also very pleasant individuals. Joe Porper is more shy but he enjoys the creations of Pete Biro, R. Paul Wilson and Gaetan Bloom some other geniuses with great ideas that are not available to other craftsmen.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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polygonsmagic Veteran user 372 Posts |
"Troy Hooser and Dean Dill on the other hand, who are not dumb either, feel more comfortable with Schoolcraft"
Nothing new from Lawrence O. Name dropping and false imformations. Troy Hooser uses nothing but Lassen products. Dean Dill, of course uses Schoolcraft, he is the one that used Lassen first and then took all Lassen's work and gave it to JS to copy, and that actually is how JS was born into coingaffing. Lassen wouldn't sell to Dill if his life depended on it, and that is common knowledge. "Lassen cannot do Dean Dill's Blow up for you: it's not a technical capacity question, it is an legal one." I have no idea what Blow Up is, but I would guess that Lassen could "legally" make it any time he chose, especially after JS and Dill knocked off his Triple Threat the minute it was released, I don't think there is any regard for ethics in that mix. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
False information? Please confirm that Shellraiser is crafted by Todd Lassen
Didn't Todd Lassen rip off Bob Kohler's locking shells that he was supposed to produce "for and on behalf" of this respectable and well known dealer. Didn't he made contact with Xavier Belmont to understand about his new gimmick called Ambivalence, doesn't he produce (even if he is not the only one) Bob Swadling's Flipper coin without permission? It's common behavior in Todd Lassen's circle to disparage anybody who doesn't exclusively revere Todd Lassen. I may add that Todd Lassen is personally disparaging some of his customers when he sees them buying from other craftsmen, describing them as bad payers (as if Todd Lassen was supplying credit for his customers). As I wrote many times, Todd Lassen is crafting very good gaffs and he is using coin types that no other craftsman keeps in their inventory. However he is not the only one to have exclusivities and I'm not the only one that he keeps disparaging (proving by the same token my point about his pleasant manners) Should presenting an opinion and sharing an experience about "names" in a thread about the "best coin gimmick producers" be considered as "name dropping"? If this is the case I plead guilty as charged. :)
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Lawrence, bringing up the shell in Shellraiser is not, perhaps, the best way to go in a claim that Hooser does not use Lassen exclusively for his high quality gaff purchases.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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polygonsmagic Veteran user 372 Posts |
"Didn't Todd Lassen rip off Bob Kohler's locking shells that he was supposed to produce "for and on behalf" of this respectable and well known dealer. Didn't he made contact with Xavier Belmont to understand about his new gimmick called Ambivalence, doesn't he produce (even if he is not the only one) Bob Swadling's Flipper coin without permission?"
Wow, another 3 misses. We all know the U3F story, we followed it closely years ago on Genii board. Where were you? I think it's still there for you to read if so inclined Lawrence. I can't imagine Lassen contacting XB and pumping for imformation about some new gaff, he has enough on his plate already, do you just make this up as you go? Where is your proof for any of your lame hearsay? And finally, the flipper origins were posted here years ago by one deceased Werner Seitz, it did not come from Swadling according to him, and that jab was weaker than the others, but you're trying. It seems your livelihood would cease to exist if you weren't Lassen bashing at every opportunity, you're OCD on that one, just because he won't sell you coins I've garnered. Thanks for all your valuable imformation Lawrence, you are really helping magicians. The Rona Barrett of magicdom. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-17 01:36, polygonsmagic wrote: Since, according to your own statement "we all know about the U3F story", isn't it evidence that there was a story? Don't worry, I was there even if you wished that I wasn't. I got the information directly from Xavier Belmont and you, without any information "just cannot imagine" and find your lack of imagination evidence enough to place yourself as a judge to sentence informations you dislike as "3 misses" I know intimately the story of the creative process which lead to the Flipper coin between Scandinavia and the UK. However like with legal matters, ideas are not protected: what is possibly protected is the first commercial materialization of an idea and Bob Swadling was the first to commercialize a flipper. Now if you think that writing again in my last post "Todd Lassen is crafting very good gaffs and he is using coin types that no other craftsman keeps in their inventory" is systematical bashing, so be it. The problem is that, possibly because of people like you, Todd Lassen is not liable to alter his behavior with potential customers and magicians in the community and if you don't like my criticism check the one of other people in this thread. Now I can accept that Todd Lassen is totally allowed to behave the way he wants, but refusing to hear balanced critics exposes him to further criticism. I'm not calling you names (which you keep on doing with me spitting in rage) because it serves nothing to the community. You keep on trying to make the relation of opinions and experiences a personal infuriated debate, basing your statement on what you believe or imagine, when I'm attempting to get factual and balanced. As for Todd Lassen, it's your priviledge but you may doubt that you are serving your cause well in confirming a certain state of mind around Todd Lassen who's arrogance and suffisance are more in line here than his nice work. Thanks for supplying such an obvious confirmation. Now amongst the 5 tousand and somewhat posts that I wrote not even 1% concerns Todd Lassen: what about your percentage of post helping other magicians? Have a nice day :)
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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polygonsmagic Veteran user 372 Posts |
So, to be clear, Xavier Belmont told you directly that Todd Lassen was trying to copy his new Ambivilence gaff?
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