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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
It most certaily is not BS. But there is a good probability that the findings will not stand up to further scrutiny. There is a world of difference.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-09 12:43, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: To borrow on a phrase/saying. "One man's B.S. is another man's hope maybe being fruitful. Or some thought like that. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
BS typically involves a deliberate misrepresentation. There is no evidence of that here. He could be dead wrong. But I see no reason to accuse him of BS.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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RS1963 Inner circle 2734 Posts |
This is true. But it has also become a more generic term for things that aren't real or true as well. Some one could say. "The ad says this has a new and improved taste. That's b.s. it still tastes like grass" So someone saying they found proof of life outside of our home planet could be called b.s.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I find here the phrase, "13.7 billion year history of the Universe". I am curious as to how we arrive at that number. Curious because, what about the 13.7 billion years before that? Was there just nothing?Or for that matter the 13.7 billion years before that.
How did this all just come about? The big Bang Thingy? What made it go Bang? Something had to be there and I keep asking...where did it come from? How did it get there and go Bang? You caan not create something from nothing. So someone or something created it, right or wrong? It just wasn't always there was it? Not debating here just asking.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It is obviously genuine and its from space. Its from a planet that exploded years ago and anything at all that was living on it is now dead.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-10 21:19, acesover wrote: You raise a very deep and difficult issue. Much to deep and difficult for this forum. But I suggest you start by wondering what the heck time is. It is one of those things that we take for granted, but it is very difficult to say precisely what we mean by "time". The best modern accounts of time suggest that it is intimately connected to space. By "space" the reference is to existence in 3 dimensions. But that doesn't quite get at that thorny topic either. What does it mean to occupy space? Once you come to grips with the difficulty of those two topics a fairly natural connection arises: what is the relationship between time and space? The issue with the age of the universe is the modern belief that if there is no space then there is no time. The phrase "before the universe came into existence" is, on this view, formally meaningless. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-10 21:19, acesover wrote: Magnus gave some good answers. Essentially, it is possible there simply was no "before." Asking what was before the big bang is kind of like asking what was to the left of the big bang. Also, asking what/who created the big bang presupposes that something created it. Besides this initial assumption, any "answer" only leads to the same question. You only push it back by one. Infinite regress. These talks from Lawrence Krauss also cover the idea of a universe from "nothing." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdvWrI_oQjY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Both of those talks of the "universe from nothing" may very well have some valid points but one is in excess of an hour and the other just a few minutes short of an hour...so I did not watch either of them.
Again maybe they answered my questions or they just like to talk not sure which. I imagine at this time we, which includes scientests do not really know how everything came about. They just have theories. It just boggles the mind when one contemplates...how should I say it, "existance" how old is existance? Or how about, how large is the universe? Can it have an end? Where does it begin? I know some say it is like a circle and bends around and meets itself. Well what is outside that circle? Of course that is only if you subscribe to that theory. So many questions and so few "positive" answers. But lots of speculation.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2011-03-11 12:55, acesover wrote: Which is why scientists continue to look into it and finely hone their theories. Currently the answers to your questions of where the universe came from, what was here before and what initially triggered the initial expansion of space time is, "we don't know". We have some pretty interesting ideas. but currently no definitive answer. In fact we may never know. But we shouldn't ever stop trying to come to an understanding of how it occurred. As knowledge drives us ever forward and moves us from the dark world of superstition into a more enlightened time
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Gee Payne, your last sentence sounds like the beginning of a Sci Fi movie. Almost like the Star Trek opening line about going where no man has gone before.
However I agree with you. The only part of your post I do not agree with is that which states "In fact we may never know". That and what I feel your refrence to religion as superstition. You just had to get that in. Other wise it is not the real Payne. If we survive long enough I believe we will know. At this point the only statement that holds water is "that we do not know for sure". The jury is still out on this one, like it or not.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-10 21:19, acesover wrote: See... http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_age.html http://www.universeadventure.org/big_ban......univ.htm Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-10 21:19, acesover wrote: http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl......cles-rea Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 19:30, R.S. wrote: Yea I see. I wasted my time and went through the whole ball of wax they had there. I love this statement: "Big Bang Theory predicts that sometime during the first second of Era 1, an unusual energy drove the Universe through a rapid, accelerating expansion. During this inflationary period, the Universe increased in size on the order of 1027". I think that just about sums it up for everyone here. An unusual energy drove the universe yada yada...It also mentions in this that they do not know what happened if you read the whole thing. Something like the weatherman. It will rain tomorrow or maybe not. So take those umbrellas but you might not need them. Get it through your head. No one knows how it all came about.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Acesover, that is through our heads. Several have stated as much.
The point is that, particularly as we don't know, we can't even assume that there was a before, behind, to the left of, etc, the big bang. Time, as we understand it, by most observations, began with the big bang. The evidence suggests there was no "before," in any way we can understand.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 22:57, gdw wrote: So before The Big Bang there was no existance. Is that correct? Because that is how it sounds to me if you are correct. By the way the statement "in any way we can understand". is a cop out. You cannot understand the concept of God either but refuse to believe in God. Does this failing to undertand only work the way you see it? Is it not allowed to work for those who believe in God?
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
I didn't say "any way we understand it." I said as we understand it. That is all we can work with, what we currently understand.
As for god, I'm not refusing anything. Can you understand the concept of Santa delivering gifts to everyone in one night? Does that mean you should make conclusions and believe in him? Also, I'm saying we don't know, so we can't posite. With god you are saying the exact opposite. As for religion and superstition, whether or not a person engages in specific acts that you classify in separate categories. It has nothing to do with whether a person is, or can be "religious" and "superstitious." I'm asking what differentiates the nature of the belief categories? They are both beliefs and or rituals with no observable proof backing them, nor any observable effects. I see no difference between believing praying to god can have an effect, and believing a rabbit's foot has some effect. You believing that one is more valid has no baring on there being any objective, or empirical difference between them as a category of belief. Religious beliefs are, categorically, no different than superstitious ones, the same way that christian beliefs are no different categorically than hinduism.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
It is to late to respond to your comments.
But I must say please don't be such a goofball and use the Santa thing. Parents tell their kids that. And they will continue to tell them for a long time to com. You know what? Its nice. Maybe yours didn't and that is part of your problem. You know what I don't care what you believe or disbelieve it does not effect me and mine in any way shape or form. So believe what you want and I will also and lets forget about it. Knock yourself out and do whatever you think is best for you and yours. That is all that matters. Santa no Santa, God no God whatever floats your boat.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Not sure what you mean by it being too late to respond. I was not trying to be hostile. I am sincerely asking what the difference is? To me there is none. I also am not asking because I care about your religious beliefs. I'm asking why you think there is a difference, beside you believing in one and not the other, between religions beliefs and superstitious ones.
To me, you believing in god, but not believing that black cats are bad luck is no different than believing said cats are bad luck, but that there is nothing to the walking under a ladder belief.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-11 22:39, acesover wrote: The links addressed your original question of how we know the Universe is 13.7 billion years old. Here, you seem to have shifted gears and are referring to 1) "dark energy" and, 2) the cause of the Big Bang. Those questions are still unanswered. And science is quite comfortable with saying "we don't know." In fact, not knowing is what drives science to continually theorize, experiment, and update it's body of knowledge. After all, that's how progress is made. However, not knowing makes some people very uncomfortable. So when they hit a roadblock they simply give up and cease further questioning. Instead, they contrive an explanation to fill a gap and consider the matter settled. And no additional evidence to the contrary will change their mind. Science, on the other hand, welcomes new evidence. Big Bang Theory is currently our best explanation of the expanding Universe that we observe today. Any contrary theory would have to have stronger data to support it than the data supporting BB Theory. The CAUSE of the BB is a totally different matter. Indeed, no one knows the cause. But someday science may even solve that riddle. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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