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alcar New user 4 Posts |
Having watched the Redonkulous YouTube I was not impressed. Too many question that need to be asked. Why does the performer undo his jacket half way through his performance when he knows his movements, during the routine ,will require it to be open? Why put an envelop into his pocket when throughout the performance he was throwing newspaper on the floor? Why get someone up to help you , they should be there representing the audience, and have them close their eyes? I was performing similar effects back in 60s last century and I can tell you none of the basic mistakes I have outlined would have been in my routine. At that time, even today, I would consider Redonkulous sort of effect as a chapter in a book rather than a stand alone item As a teenager back in the 1950s . I learned very quickly to buy books and more books if I wanted to perform effects unique to me I read and researched —match one effect/ method with another effect/method. I have not seen Redonkulous but I lay a pound to pinch salt that there is nothing new in the method. The trouble with today's magicians they think they have invented the wheel. What do I know, I have been only involved in magic for nearly 70 years .
Alcar |
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RyanAdams Regular user 104 Posts |
I saw Bill Abbot lecture this a few weeks back in the UK.
I have to say the effect is extremely strong, and fooled every magician in the room. To the laymen, this is a miracle. The morale of my post: If you are a Stage performer, Buy this!!! Ryan |
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Lindan New user 15 Posts |
Ryan I couldn't agree with you more.
I just performed REDONKULOUS during my team building workshop for a small corporate group On April 7. There were 19 people in a small function room. Here is a quote from my client's follow up email. In this performance the thought of word was 'honeymoon'. "PS. Anthony, I NEED to know HOW HOW HOW you did that newspaper word trick: Honeymoon!! You know that being an analytical person it will drive me close to insanity not knowing!! ; )" Anthony Lindan |
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dannydaniels New user 74 Posts |
Alcar, it looks to me like he opened his jacket because he is a bit heavy set like my own abdominal area. German beer is too good to deny. The envelope - well - okay, if I were to toss someone's envelope to the floor, it just might look like bad manners or taste, I suppose. Besides, it's people on our side of the fence that scrutinize every jot and tittle while the general public, not knowing where the magician is taking them, just go with the flow and wouldn't ask such questions, and it's the public, as you well know, that needs to be entertained. REDONKULOUS rocks.
I'm not confused... I just don't know yet.
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alcar New user 4 Posts |
My initial comments were based on the You tube performance. I was not questioning the outcome of the effect. If one feels that these inconsistencies in performance be disregarded it does, in my view, shows how little audiences are valued intellectually these days. It seems also the inventor, and friends are more concerned acclaiming the effect to be best thing since slice bread than noting these performance errors. Of course it is their right, although, in my opinion, this confirms their lack of understanding to stage presence. These days, of Dvds, and I am including video cassettes, magicians have stopped collecting books the best way to learn one’s craft. In fact no body bothers to do research anymore. With magic available to the masses, via the internet, claiming one is an inventor has become easy. Many think it is an easy way to earn money.
I worked out a method and performed this effect forty years ago. The bits and pieces that went into my routine were found from books. I was a performer not a writer and never thought of publishing. I have no problem with people thinking they have invented the wheel providing it is done with professionalism— alas it has not happen here. Since my first post, my extensive contact in the magic world has afforded me the privilege of watching the tutorial Dvd on Redonkulous My immediate reaction deemed the production of the Dvd as poor quality. The opening shots seemed to ignore the fact the light umbrella reflection could be seen via the glass of a background picture. This was clearly ( excuse the pun) not a good start. I have watched many Dvds far better produced for half the price. The failure to credit did not go far enough, there is a misleading statement, very poor instructions on other people’s invention and the overall instructions could be seen , in my view, as being sexist in its approach to say the least, To enlarge; credit to Alan Shaxon was not present and the demonstration of his invention was poor lacked research I guess. On the dvd and the public advertisement it says the spectator ‘merely’ thinks of a word. Merely mean ‘nothing else ‘ - this is not true. To give this impression, in order to sell the product, when in fact the spectator is told to do something extra does, in my opinion, contravene the trade and description act of the UK As I said it is only my opinion but I am in the process of finding out. The dvd showed certain procedures which needs the use of a jacket. There were no demonstrations of the same action without a jacket so, for example females and those living in a hot country where jackets are not worn was not shown a different method. It is not, as someone from the dealer states, encumbered upon the individual to find alternative methods but the responsibility of the manufacture to make sure the performance can be performed by all their purchasers. This goes with selling the product world wide. If not, it should declare in the advertisement. In fact I believe some one asked this question on the dealer’s forum and was fobbed off with some inconclusive reply—so much for having a forum. Already the product price has been reduced and also now being sold on Magic Week under second hand sales list. I don’t mind people saying this is the best trick ever but I do object the manner in which it has been put on the market. Alcar |
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
Alcar, welcome to The Café.
I have Redonkulous. I have performed Redonkulous on numerous occasions. This is a fantastic effect that produces a very strong reaction from the audience. So much so that I close my show with it. Any magician with a few ounces of imagination can come up with ways to perform this without a jacket, infact it could be performed naked if desired. I do not think providing a solution to every concievable scenario is necessary. Magicians like to think for themselves. Placing the envelope in the jacket pocket, is again a matter of preference, any magician that watches the DVD will realise that this is not vital to the routine. I found the quality of the the production more than adequate to demonstrate and convey all that was necessary. It wasn't made to be shown at the Cannes Film Festival. Any little extra the spectator has to do during the pre-show is so insignificant that it is barely worth mentioning and also a nice safety net should things go wrong. The perfectionists amoung us would simply use a little linguistics to completely remove the addition from the spectators memory. the powerful reactions this effect creates indicates that we have not insulted anyones intellegence, rather stimulated and excited it. You will find, on this forum that the older and wiser members are constantly telling the newer mentalists to read as much as possible for the same reasons that you do. Your harsh critique on an effect ,that is warmly received by the workers of the community, in your only posts as a new member to The Café appears unusual. A very dramatic way to introduce yourself to say the least. It is noted sadly that your grief and criticism comes from an effect you didn't even bother to purchase, rather you apparently borrowed from a friend. On that note I shall not comment. |
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Mystical Matthew Elite user 468 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-28 06:04, mike donoghue wrote: This was the first question that popped into my head when I watched the YouTube video. How do you hold the audience member "accountable"? Ok, maybe the guy in this example legitimately forgot. In my experience though any opportunity a spectator has to screw you over, they'll frequently take. Even if you pre-screen and carefully pick your spectators, they pull stupid crap on you. The simplest example of this is: "Was this your card?" "No..." The solution to this is to hold the spectators "accountable" and tightly control the spectators at all times. Examples of this are making sure everyone in the crowd hears / sees their selection, making them keep a "receipt", etc... The "control" part is equally important. At one point I was working on a piece of experimental mentalism. The spectators decided to trade "receipts" when my back was turned to screw me over. That's a lot of words to explain a simple concept, but I want to make sure you understand my concern. How do you control the spectator and hold them accountable? How do you keep them from changing their word at the last second? If they do pull that crap, how do you prove to the audience they're purposefully messing with you? If the answer is simply "learn to pick the right spectators" that's not really good enough. Appearances are deceiving. I have zero margin of error on stage. How do you "guarantee" the outcome of the trick even if the spectator you picked turns out to be a total idiot? |
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
Anthony Lindan has built in safe-guards to hold the spectator accountable.
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The Great Stevini Regular user 147 Posts |
I performed Redonkulous for the first time last Friday evening. It received a great reaction! Thumbs up for a terrific effect!
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Steven Conner Inner circle 2720 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-29 06:57, Russell Davidson wrote: There are so many greats and unknowns that use pre-show, and no one has a clue. At some point and time, you have probably been fooled by pre-show and didn't even know it.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
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The Great Stevini Regular user 147 Posts |
The pre-show spectator is not a stooge at all. In fact, that person enjoys the on-stage effect at least as much as everyone else. In my first performance, a lot more.
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SoCalPro Inner circle Southern California 1634 Posts |
Just found this effect and this thread. What is the general opinion on which is the better effect....Scatterbrain or Redonkulous?
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Lindan New user 15 Posts |
Hi SoCalPro
Redonkulous is a modified handling of the basic Scatterbrain effect. I used the Scatterbrain method for several years with excellent results before developing my modified Redonkulous handling. I shared my handling with Sactterbrain co-developer Eric Anderson about three years before releasing Redonkulous. It was released by Bill Abbott Magic with permission from Eric Anderson and full credit to Eric Anderson and David Harkey. Scatterbrain can be found in Eric Anderson & David Harkey's book AH, HA. The modified Redonkulous handling allows the onstage assisting spectator, with eyes closed, to 'freely' point to a word on the final piece of newspaper and actually see and read (to himself) the word he pointed to. The spectator then writes his word on a white board or pad without letting the audience see it. For the dramatic climax the white board is turned revealing the pointed to word matches the thought of word. In the Scatterbrain handling, a spectator in the audience points to a word on the final piece of newspaper with eyes closed. The performer then reads the 'pointed to' word and writes it on a white bard or pad. The spectator who points to the word does not actually see the his pointed to word. Hope this helps. Anthony Lindan - developer/creator of Redonkulous |
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SoCalPro Inner circle Southern California 1634 Posts |
Thanks for the clarification Lindan...I appreciate it.
JIM |
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eric anderson New user 22 Posts |
Hello
My friend Marco resent this thread to me saying I should make a quick comment about Scatterbrain and the why behind the method. I can’t say much because I risk exposing Anthony Lindens addition or Scatterbrains original method. First off I remember going over the manuscript for Ah-Ha! with David Harkey and mentioning two things in regards to Scatterbrain. One of which was the spectator closing their eyes to point to the word. I mention this now because when I CREATED SCATTERBRAIN 18 YEARS AGO I HAVE NEVER PERFORMED THE ROUTINE BY ASKING THE SPECTATOR TO CLOSE THEIR EYES AND POINT TO THE WORD NEVER - IT”S NOT NESSARY. THE AUDIENCE UNDERSTANDS I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE THOUGHT OF WORD IS ANYWAY SO WHY WOULD I HAVE THE SPECTATOR CLOSE THEIR EYES and point to the word. David was more comfortable with this procedure and that is why it is written up in Ah-Ha! Here is my exact script "Please take your finger and put it down on any word that you like - Excellent choice that's the same word I would have chosen" Many times depending on how many words are on the final piece of paper I will give them the opportunity to move their finger to a different word and when they do I build it up in a MAJOR way! The spectator involved in the final selection process is not an instant stooge and what’s happening or a better way of saying it not happening is much more subtle. As far as which routine is better Scatterbrain or Redonkulous well it's the exact same routine, exact same presentation, exact same effect, ending with the exact same result - Astonishment that leads to a HUGE round of Applause. This should be a conversation about preferred procedure and more importantly personal performing criteria. When I put Scatterbrain together all those years ago here is some of my personal criteria I had for the routine. • After researching similar effects absolutely No Forces, I wanted the spectator(s) to think of word and not me making a predication of some sort (This is HUGE and adds to the impossibility of how the audience perceives the final effect) • If I choose I wanted to be able to perform the routine in real time in front of a Live Audience. This is very important to me. • I did not want to depend on pre-show again very important to me because sometimes you just can’t get the information. (I’ll share a story towards the end that explains why we have to be very careful with preshow) • Very few moves if any – The presentation of Scatterbrain has No Moves it’s impossible to catch you when you’re not doing anything. • The method must support repeat viewings I developed this routine in the street and then started working trade shows people would come back again and again to witness the routine - Danny Archer saw me perform Scatterbrain at a magic convention. I went from room to room performing the routine four times back to back he told me it fooled him on each occasion. The method is extremely subtle and difficult to detect. • A spectator could do the tearing procedure with everything happening in their hands. Very easy to do but I prefer to keep the routine moving at a nice pace so I don't do it this way anymore, but still possible. • Borrow any newspaper or just grab a single sheet at the venue. Scatterbrain meets all of the criteria. Here are a couple of important things I learned ever the years while performing Scatterbrain • If you’re not performing the routine in real time what do you do if the spectator thinking of the word leaves the event or goes to the bathroom at the wrong moment. Believe me this will happen to you the solution is very simple. • What if the spectator forgets the word their thinking about or worse makes up a word on the spot to cover themselves– the problem of forgetting the word was the first thing I mentioned to Anthony Linden when he sent me the manuscript for Redonkulous. This problem is addressed in Ah-Ha! in a single sentence. The change Anthony Linden has made to the Scatterbrain fits his style and charm perfectly. As I hinted at in my first comment on this thread I considered the path that Anthony made and quickly disregarded it because of what I would lose. One is not better or worse it goes back to personal performing criteria. Since Ah-Ha! is off the market and I’m no longer explaining Scatterbrain in the two maybe three lectures I do each year I suggest you buy Redonkulous and add it to your show. Do what Mr. Linden did as you start to perform and understand the routine make changes based on your performing conditions & personal performing criteria. Happy Performing Eric Anderson P.S. Quick Story – Last September an agent I work for about 13 times a year booked me for an event in Pennsylvania. I had a morning event earlier that same day in Orlando Florida. It was mentioned to the second client that because of flights and the drive time to the second event that Eric should be on time however he could be a few minutes late. Well show time was at 8:00pm I arrived at 8:11pm. The client was waiting for me at the front door. Forty five seconds after I walked through the door they made the introductions and I walked on stage and performed my 65 minute stage show. I closed this show with Scatterbrain. Here is what is instructive about this story. After the show the client was very nice with his comments and then went to mention that the part that impressed him the most with the show was the fact that I just walked on stage and started performing. He the told me when he originally booked the show with the agent and the agent told him what I was going to be doing during the show he silently said to himself the only way this guy can do what his agent claims he can do is if he talks with the people in the crowd before the show and somehow gets information. He went on to say he was watching me like a hawk to make sure I did not talk with anyone before the show. This was a HUGE lesson for me and a reminder that people are very smart and always watching. P.P.S. If you are already performing Scatterbrain and have any questions feel free to call me at (404) 286-2973 or send me an email at ahhaentertainment@gmail.com. I’ll share a couple of additions I have made to the routine that will take it up a notch. |
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bsears Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 1040 Posts |
Eric - thank you so much for your contributions to this conversation.
Scatterbrain has been a worker for me for 10+ years. I think that someone who is considering choosing between these routines needs to take a few things into account. 1)Both routines will appear very similar, if not identical, to a lay audience. The methods are different; the effect is the same. 2)There is one part of Redonkulous which is certainly more "fair," but it comes with a price. (see previous posts regarding clothing, ease/time of set up, having eyes closed, etc.) 3)For 1/2 the price of Redonkulous, you could buy the book Ah-Ha which contains Scatterbrain and many other great routines. (Professionals might do best to buy both and see what suits them). These observations are not meant as a knock on Redonkulous. I appreciate the creative changes, which in many ways do classify as improvements, imo. But taking everything into account, I'll stick with Scatterbrain. |
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LobstaJohnson New user 48 Posts |
I'm with bsears on this one; I have both and there are times when I will use the Scatterbrain ending with the Redonkulous preshow! Having multiple outs in case someone forgets the word or you make a bad choice on your on-stage assistant really makes a big difference to me.
Eric's comments about how Scatterbrain is a bit more "fair" if the original person forgets the word is very true, but Redonkulous has a way out of that too, it's just a little more involved (but still effective...if you do this every day maybe it'll come up once a year). Reinforcing that the person needs to remember their word is very important. Also making sure it's someone who isn't going to leave on you is also important! Thanks, Anthony and Eric for some great ideas. On the Redonkulous DVD, Alcar (see above) complained about the quality. I am not interested in whether you can see the lighting umbrella in the reflection of the picture (though the camera operator should have caught that), but rather the CONTENT of the DVD. Anthony's presentation and explanation is so thorough, you really could do this routine the next day. I love his explanation of the pre-show and feel VERY comfortable with it. It's nothing that anyone who has done even a smattering of mentalism hasn't done or couldn't do with ease. your pal, Lobsta
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<BR>credo che tutti gli uomini siano fratelli |
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Brett Sirrell Magician New user 77 Posts |
Just read this thread and have been looking at this trick for a while. but not sure if its usuable for my situation.
I am looking for something which I can do as part of a street show'ish scenario where I pull in a few people, I do the preshow stuff. Build the show more and then finsh with the reveal. The pre show bit is my only concern, could I do this while others are watching? or does this need to be done one on one?
Brett Sirrell Magician and entertainer
www.brettsirrell.co.uk |
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Lundonia Veteran user refuses to read more than 321 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-19 09:05, Brett Sirrell Magician wrote: It can easily be done while others are watching. I have been doing it back stage where other performers are hanging around and never had a problem. I guess it would work in the situation you are describing but it also requires the preshow spec to stay til the end of the show (or at least until a crowd has been built).
"Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity - and i'm not sure about the former" - Albert Einstein
www.jensmagi.se |
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eric anderson New user 22 Posts |
Hello Brett Sirrell
Scatterbrain is PERFECT for the Street! Matter of fact it was developed ON THE STREET almost 20 years ago. All of details worked out & refined in the toughest performing environment I have ever experienced. I would perform back to back shows with people returning all day to see the effect trying to workout the method. The method is extremely subtle. In fact my first BIG pay day was booked because of Scatterbrain. This client witnessed me performing Scatterbrain on the street. The client said if you can do that we must bring you to our event that's was impossible. That was another HUGE lesson for me if you say your a magician you must do something that is perceived to be Totally Impossible. Brett go out and perform ScatterBrain on the Street ASAP and you will be a Happy Person. Happy Performing Eric Anderson P.S. Brett test doing the Pre-show work right there in front of the ENTIRE audience and then follow up with Scatterbrain and watch what happens, TA Waters was correct. The TA Waters Quote is Amazing. If anyone can tell me the quote I'm talking about shoot me and email and the first person to get it correct will get a FREE copy of my Almost Everything DVD shipped anywhere in the WORLD. Here is a clue - billets - And yes Scatterbrain is taught on the DVD. My email is eric@erictyleranderson.com put TA WATERS in the subject line. |
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