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dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2011-03-26 11:00, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-26 01:50, dmkraig wrote:
would you please give me the name of a document where a over half of the world's scientists in all fields claimed that reincarnation doesn't exist? I'd like to review this "scientific consensus" you're taking about because I've never seen it.

Kraig, science does not work like that - there wouldn't be enough paper for all the signatures.

Yeah, I know. That's why your statement was simply false. There is no "scientific consensus" on the objective reality of reincarnation.

Quote:
Suffice it to say that 90% of all Nobel laureates in science are atheists. There's your consensus.

No, that's a consensus of Nobel laureates about the existence of God. It has nothing to do with reincarnation.
By the way, since it is a much smaller list, could you give a link to site that has the data on 90% of Nobel laureates believe this way?
Thanks in advance. I just wanted to look at the raw data. I'm sure that nobody here believes you simply pulled that number out of your behind.
Dannydoyle
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Has "science" looked at reincarnation in the first place?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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Danny, science has looked at reincarnation, extensively.
Kraig, you are deliberately misunderstanding the concept of a scientific consensus, so I won't keep flogging a dead horse. You can do your own research. However I will throw in two interesting statistics. A Harris Interactive Poll in 2006, conducted in the US and a number of European countries, showed 18% of the general population are non-believers. However the Federal Bureau of Prisons compile their own statistics. These were analysed in 1997, and found that only 0.21% of the general prison population are atheists. So the message is clear; the more evolved of us know the truth about God - she's not there. Survival after death, and belief in reincarnation, fall into the same category.
Another interesting fact; the richest man in the world (at times) and the biggest philanthropist ever, Warren Buffet, is an atheist.
Dannydoyle
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I still want to know if you can prove a negative.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TonyB2009
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On 2011-03-26 15:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
I still want to know if you can prove a negative.

No - but I'm having difficulty proving that!

Seriously, I have heard for years that you can't prove a negative. How about this? There are no leprechauns under my table. That's a negative. But I can prove it. I can look under my table and check. Its just a phrase guys trot out when they can't prove their beliefs, but don't want them shot down.
Dannydoyle
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It is a phrase guys pull out to point out how it is sort of futile to argue a "nondisprovable" theory. That is the difference in science and pseudo science like astrology.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Astrology definately isn't real but then again I am a taurus and that's a typical point of view...
dmkraig
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On 2011-03-26 18:15, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-26 15:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
I still want to know if you can prove a negative.

No - but I'm having difficulty proving that!

Seriously, I have heard for years that you can't prove a negative. How about this? There are no leprechauns under my table. That's a negative. But I can prove it. I can look under my table and check. Its just a phrase guys trot out when they can't prove their beliefs, but don't want them shot down.

What if the leprechauns are invisible and intangible? The only way you could disprove they're not under your table is if you left out a plate of beans and after they ate the beans there was no gaseous smell from under your table. Of course then you'd still have leprechauns under your bed. Pesky little, buggers, huh?
TonyB2009
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Kraig, I've been warned - I'll be sleeping on the couch tonight.
Dannydoyle
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On 2011-03-27 02:49, dmkraig wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-26 18:15, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-03-26 15:50, Dannydoyle wrote:
I still want to know if you can prove a negative.

No - but I'm having difficulty proving that!

Seriously, I have heard for years that you can't prove a negative. How about this? There are no leprechauns under my table. That's a negative. But I can prove it. I can look under my table and check. Its just a phrase guys trot out when they can't prove their beliefs, but don't want them shot down.

What if the leprechauns are invisible and intangible? The only way you could disprove they're not under your table is if you left out a plate of beans and after they ate the beans there was no gaseous smell from under your table. Of course then you'd still have leprechauns under your bed. Pesky little, buggers, huh?

The more you have to deal in 'what if', the less like science it is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
dmkraig
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Actually, Danny, the scientific method involves the creation of theories that not only explain all known facts, but also allow you to make predictions, i.e., X should happen if Y happens. Therefore, being able to deal with "what ifs" is not, as you say, "less like science." Rather, it is at the heart of scientific inquiry.
Dannydoyle
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Inquiry, NOT explination.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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I'm a quantum jumper. I fly. I'd like to take you all with me, but... you refuse to allow me to.
clap... clap... clap... well done!
Okay, so I've had a few. feck off!!!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Deepintrance
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Glad you are joining us Tony. One thing you will not get from us is any requirement to buy into a theory and certainly not a state or special process based model. We will spend 30 mins on our 'AI Model' on Sunday afternoon. I think you will find it of interest.

Anthony
[/quote]

It will be great to meet with you in Dublin this 8th+9th April Tony. It will be entertaining, educational and fun.
TonyB2009
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Dublin will be fun. Who are you, Mr Deeintrance?
Deepintrance
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I am Mr Deepintrance. Can I practice on you in Dublin please?
KENNZINGTON
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Having practiced and performed Hypnosis over 30 years I must comment on the "I knew a guy who was faking" claim...

History shows that countless people have SUCCESSFULLY faked:

> being in pain (to fool MD's to acquire prescription drugs)
> being in love (to fool/acquire wealthy spouses)
> being "unafraid" (to fool/deter potential agressors)
> being mentally ill (to fool psychologists/courts vs criminal charges)
> "sincerely" believing in God (to fool potential religeous voters)

the list is endless..
So does this "prove" that there is NO PAIN; NO LOVE; NO FEAR; NO INSANITY; NO "REAL" FAITH.. And does this also prove that all theose "fooled" MD's; courts; etc are "incompetent"?

Or, does it just prove that some motivated people are capable of LYING and ACTING well-enough to "fool" people - even experts - when it comes to what is going on IN THEIR OWN MIND???

All MENTAL states can be "faked"...
this has NOTHING to do with whether the "existance" of the condition they are faking is a "real" condition (in fact, the EASIEST conditions to fake are those that are MOST COMMON!)
KENNZINGTON
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On whether reincarnation "exists"...

This was NOT my preferred area but after witnessing some remarkable I took off (the year) 1987 just to investigate what seemed so "real"... and I eventually met with genenetic scientists/reaserchers from UCLA who assured me that the fact that most all living creatures are born WITH MEMORIES from their ansestors, which they explained were wrongly dismissed "nonscientifically" as instinct or "talent" (animals re instinct.. humans re "talents" ie: musical "ability" etc) - all which are scientifically ONLY possibly "inherited MEMORY" - that they assured me, that "scientifically speaking" the question is NOT "Can we remember a past life?" - But rather...

...Based on the evidence/known facts - the 'scientifically correct' questions to ask are:
1) Are human beings actually "separate entities" who can remember "their own" past lives?
- OR -
2)"Are human beings actually "part of" the SAME (or several) streams of a "single intelligent energy" that continuously "rebirths and multiplies" to learn/retain a continuing/ongoing knowledge?" ....???
hypnokid
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What was the evidence for the (shout) memories?

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
TonyB2009
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Kenzington, welcome tot he forum. Do you have any links to peer-reviewed publications on humans "remembering" any past incidents (rather than talents that could be inherited)? Better still, give us the names of the scientists you were talking to and we can google them ourselves. Tony
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