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dmkraig
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Doc, if this were adults, then I'd agree. But, "doctor," we're talking about humiliating children and installing paraphilia in children. Time to get your "license" revoked! Smile
dmkraig
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Quote:
On 2011-03-24 18:11, mindpunisher wrote:
Encouraging minors on a forum to go out and create altered states in others really is the problem not the poster. Past threads have been pretty rediculous.


MP, I partially agree with you. However, the problem is NOT encouraging minors to go out and create altered states. Rather, the problem is that hypnosis is about far more than just trance and suggestion.

I'm in favor of encouraging minors and adults to get THOROUGHLY trained in hypnosis. That includes explaining local laws and things like ethics and responsibility.

I would hope that many, if not most adults who start practicing hypnosis already have these concepts. Children, in many cases, have not developed such beliefs.

Ant's books are wonderful introductions to hypnosis. They'd make good manuals for part of a training course in hypnosis. For adults they're fine. But respectfully, NOT for children. If a child is in a training with you, that's fine. But on their own, books such as yours and DVDs ranging from ZAP! to even some of the best introductions are just dynamite waiting to explode.

In this particular case, things are relatively minor...except for the kid who was humiliated and faces weeks or months of embarrassment and a potential lifetime of anger, and the OP who is so young and clueless that he doesn't even understand that he screwed up big time. Sometime,

in the future, some kid is going to watch a video, read Ant's book, get some advice from a forum such as this one, and use hypnosis without a developed conscience to really screw over someone. The fallout will be attacks on all hypnotists and the practice of hypnosis.

The solution, IMO, is not to tell children to read someones book or watch a DVD. Rather, it is to tell them to get a good in-person training.

And if some kid whines that we're just trying to keep it secret from them and we want to keep the "club" closed, tough! On another Café forum, someone came on and asked for how a trick was done. Virtually every response was "no." Magicians don't give away secrets to someone they don't know and who hasn't exhibited any knowledge of magic. And yet hypnotists are supposed to blithely give away their techniques to clueless children. It doesn't make sense.
Mindpro
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It's a shame that this is what hypnosis has come to.
RandyM
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Fergie,

I"m pleased to see that your not ashamed to acknowledge you made a mistake. Please be more understanding in the future and enjoy what your able to accomplish. Just please be more responsible and don't succumb to peer pressure. All the best to you.
fergie33
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Dmkraig ... the patter used was, I want you to pretend this is the hottest girl in the world etc, the idea has been used in tons of hypnosis shows, the one I got this specific idea from was a justin tranz show. so I don't see how I'm labeled a sick individual, when that's clearly not the case, you should ask before you assume. after reading your post you seem to be on the same maturity level as me. anyway I'm not here to argue, I was here to ask a question that I thought some people might have the answers to, I didn't ask anything more. I have the slightest clue as to why your 3 paragraph post was necessary. I don't think the issue here was me learning how to hypnotize, the issue was me hypnotizing someone and giving them an inappropriate suggestion that was immature. I'm young not stupid, I don't need some one to lecture and pretend like they know what there talking when you truly didn't know the situation all that well. I have a video of the performance if some one would like to see it pm and I will give you the link so you can watch it and help me point out the flaws, id really appreciate it. I enjoy the criticism , I can learn from them, your lecturing, not so much...
fergie33
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Thanks randy, I appreciate the comment
Chris Meece
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A quick spelling/grammar check would go a long way as well. My eyes are starting to bleed.
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
fergie33
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Sorry, I rushed through it
Mindpro
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There is soooo much wrong with his posts and it's apparent he doesn't have a clue. Comparing what he did to Justin Tranz are two completely different things. This seems to be a classic example of somebody coping the patter of an experienced professional and thinking t hey are somehow doing the same thing. Slow down, learn. One can't listen when one is always talking. The attitude is the sure sign of a young, inexperienced amateur.
mindpunisher
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>>>in the future, some kid is going to watch a video, read Ant's book, get some advice from a forum such as this one, and use hypnosis without a developed conscience to really screw over someone. The fallout will be attacks on all hypnotists and the practice of hypnosis. <<<

Something I have been saying for as long as I can remember on here.

I don't understand why on this forum it is seen to be ok to instruct someone while in other forums it would be seen as exposure especially when the consequences are much more serious.

I also think a big part of the problem is the willingness of certain vendors to sell cheap products to anyone with no real cautions or emphasis on good conduct.

>>>On 2011-03-24 17:44, Zerububle wrote:
Hmmm a bit of a strawman arguament

While I agree that Chris didn't behave admirably there is an assumptive jump to suggest that the kid he hypnotised has been scarred for life. For all we know the experience was a fun and uplifting one (though it may not have been). Many stage hypnotists have done for worse to their subjects (consent notwithstanding). What is important here is that Chris learns from this and moves forward. Repeatedly bashing him for this is pointless in all respects<<<

This is the kind of cock eyed logic that never fails to stun me. "many a stage hypnotist", as if somehow they are any different. A hypnotist is a hypnotist fo christ sake the only difference is in the experince skill and safety.

Now I would bet any amount of money that the real risks lie with the growing number of amatuers that don't even watch a whole dvd through. That don't know what safety guidlines are and have an abreaction when anyone tries to make them aware of them...

And its this silly logic that is not only ignorant of the future direction but also an attempt to justifie their actions and feed their delusions that they creating something new .


I agree with Mindpro it is sad where hypnosis is going. Its the net and the drive for easy money and a little fame that is driving it into the ground.
hypnokid
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Fergie33

Full props. The man will not always agree with you and in this case the man has slapped you down. The fact the subject was happy with the routine shows a lack of victim.

You need to be aware that you have scared your teachers. They now think you could do that to them. Smile

Check your rights to freedom of expression; your school has suspended you for communicating in a manner that they disagreed with. Given the lack of victim and the (likely) lack of published specific rule, I think you were harshly treated.

Or take it on the chin, get better and read Hypnotism by G.H. Estabrooks. The bit about 'bumbling amateurs' will probably make you chuckle.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
hypnokid
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Quote:
On 2011-03-25 08:15, mindpunisher wrote:
I don't understand why on this forum it is seen to be ok to instruct someone while in other forums it would be seen as exposure


Perhaps because hypnosis is not magic.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
mindpunisher
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Mentalism is not magic according to most mentalists.

This is a forum not a training centre. If anything there is more reason not to instruct hypnosis. In most countries its ilegal to broadcast an induction. Its for a reason. Yet we teach ( and in many cases on here those that "teach" have little experience or knowledge) complete newbies incomplete directions on how to hypnotize others. Usually with no references to safety.

If anything that is MORE reason not to.
Chris Meece
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Quote:
On 2011-03-25 08:21, hypnokid wrote:

Check your rights to freedom of expression; your school has suspended you for communicating in a manner that they disagreed with. Given the lack of victim and the (likely) lack of published specific rule, I think you were harshly treated.


Oh come on, rights to freedom of expression? Have schools changed so much that children believe they have some said right to freedom of expression? And yes, I used the word children. You have no freaking rights to freedom of expression. You absolutely have no right for the obscene behavior that you caused and didn't immediately put a stop to. There doesn't have to be a stated rule that says "Students shall not hypnotize other students to f a chair." Use some common sense; you can't be this dense. If you want to go out to Vegas when you grow up and have the foulest show on the strip, then go for it. But for now you are in a public school that has rules. Had this happened when I was in school I would have been sent to the office and got the paddling of my life and then when I got home I would have had a belt taken to me so hard that I wouldn't have been able to walk for a week. Guess what, I would have deserved every bit of it. Instead you get a teeny weeny little suspension and then come here talking about how you were mistreated.
All small town magicians know what 793.8 signifies.
Mindpro
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Trust me, I am in Las Vegas and my show as well as all others here practice an use common sense, proper training and most have been properly trained and certified. Some of us many times over by a variety of recognized educational authorities. If he wants to truly learn hypnosis properly he must first become mature enough to see the faults in what he has done, grow up, take responsibility, be thankful something tragic didn't happen, then become properly educated like generations before him. Hypnosis is and should be more than just a cool social or party trick.
Zerububle
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So we all agree then. This was a dreadful mistake that shouldn't be repeated.

Can we stop bashing him for it now?
TonyB2009
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I have seen a lot of criticism of fergie as a child. My understanding was he was well into his teens. A completely different age, and a completely different (more adult) outlook.
He made a mistake, and has been hammered. I second the idea of stopping the criticism now.
Mindpro
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It would be easier to do that if we felt he was understanding he criticism rather than taking the offensive and trying to justify his actions with the claims of "freedom of expression", "it frustrates me that people these days can be ignorent and cocky especially when there nobodys" (I think other's here could easily say the same about this kids - who is he to come in here and be cocky and ignorant when so many have tried to help and properly guide him), "the kid has recieved a lot of publicty in school from it and loves it", "did it in the heat of the moment knowing I would get a great reaction", "I don't think the issue here was me learning how to hypnotize", "I don't need some one to lecture and pretend like they know what there talking when you truly didn't know the situation all that well", and so on.

Then he sums it all up when he said "I'm been looking into hypnosis for about a month"! And then to have some here cheer him on and encourage this...this is ridiculous. No one's "hammering" him, we're trying to properly guide him whether he (or some others) realizes it or not.
Zerububle
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Having just re-read the posts I don't thing Fergie made the comment about freedom of expression - let's stick to facts. His comments also reflect that he does understand that he acted immaturely and took it all too far with a lack of knowledge and experience. The posts by a few members on here clearly are attacks with little essence of appraisal whereas I cannot see any evidence of people applauding his behaviour. His youth shouldn't preclude him from learning and developing.

I understand that some on here are vehemently against the new surge in interest that hypnosis has got but don't tar everyone with the same brush. In all walks of life there are people that behave responsibly and people who don't. Some countries allow teenagers to learn to drive but it doesn't mean that they are automatically less responsible than adults behind the wheel. In the UK most drink driving offences are carried out by males between 25-35. Adults not children.

The vast majority of people under 20 that have learned hypnosis in recent years will probably handle it very well. Let's not get too obsessed by a minority that bring it into disrepute.

I'm in my mid 30's and perform a mix of magic and hypnosis. I avoid stage hypnosis because I don't like the format. I have a background in nursing and mental health. I am a family man and take all my responsibilities very seriously YET MP would have you believe that I am some sort of clueless wannabe.

Let's all display a bit more critical thinking and remember that our opinions are just that, opinions... Not facts not gospel.

I eagerly await responses telling me how wrong I am Smile
Mindpro
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[quote]On 2011-03-25 15:55, Zerububle wrote:
Having just re-read the posts I don't thing Fergie made the comment about freedom of expression - let's stick to facts.

You are right, I stand corrected. It was another young newbie that offered such sound advice:

[quote]"Full props. Check your rights to freedom of expression; your school has suspended you for communicating in a manner that they disagreed with. Given the lack of victim and the (likely) lack of published specific rule, I think you were harshly treated."

This just proves my point and makes it worse. It's not an isolated incident. Re-read many past posts, practically every thread, this is becoming more and more common and seems to becoming accepted as the norm. And those that culd be taking the high road and doing something about this don't seem to be and are just concerned about selling and profits. You're blind if you don't see this. Giving "props" to someone for this is absolutely ridiculous and the fact that some here don't see it and don't have a problem with this is crazy. Perhaps Mindpunisher is right in his views of the direction hypnosis is taking. It's becoming nothing more than a youtube party trick without any regard for the art or skill (or safety). Perhaps the problem is so many here are also magicians trying to include hypnosis rather than true stage hypnotists. remember, this is a Stage Hypnosis forum! It's like the whacked patients are running the Insane Asylum.
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