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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » KISS method Coins Thru Table (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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dduane
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Tim,
Have you released your "Soft Spot" on any of your products? Lovin it and need a coin through table I can do standing for my restaurant work.

Thanks,

Dennis
Lawrence O
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As Dan Efran writes "Nice to see some really aggressive cancellation of methods by other methods and conditions, and the plot definitely has a beginning, middle, and end"
Now it can have an end still missing a climax.

Tim, at the end of your first routine, you could simply gather the three coins, point at the soft spot still holding the coins, do a false take (possibly a French Drop but not necessarily) to be able to pick up the glass (In Transit Action) and then, after asking if people think that the soft spot would allow all three coins to pass at once, slap the pretended coins on to the table and let them fall into the glass. Four passages for three coins killss the feeling of repetition, IMHO.
Additionally you could use the Flipper for the second coin to visibly suggest ahead of time that the soft spot cannot accomodate more than one coin and create some expectation (your handling of the flipper in your second routine is superbly deceptive by the way).

The additon of the three coins passage at once is not a big change in the handling and you may want to give it a try to hopefully discover and set a new standard in Coins Through the table.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
feher
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Etienne,
I will look into yours and Dan suggestions. I believe you handle a flipper the same way from our many talks we had.

Dennis
I'll PM you.
Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 19:29, feher wrote:
Etienne,
I will look into yours and Dan suggestions. I believe you handle a flipper the same way from our many talks we had.

As the illusion you're trying to create is that one of the coins passes through the table, perhaps if you tossed it at the table it would look better. As it is, it appears that the coin vanishes when it leaves your fingers, not when it strikes the table.

(It's a nit, I know.)
Jonathan Townsend
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Some of my explorations are show in the Apocalypse articles. In the more elaborate setup using the tube - obviously the Nowhere Palm vanish of the gaffus at the end had to remain only hinted at as Geoff's work was 'top secret' so to speak. The theme in that last one really is about using a prop to seemingly push a hole into the table, then move the hole around and restoring the table at the end. I have yet to figure out a cost effective way to make the telescoping prop so the idea is only hinted at in that article (fourth dimensional trip). NOTE: David Roth and I came to that basic approach from different directions/aesthetic considerations and I was not aware of his shelled coins across at the time.

There's a "toss it at the table" handling in the Genii article where you do a one-handed vanish and a recovery/production to manage the trick. Again - I wish Geoff had published his Nowhere Palm work.

To all - if you get a premise for the trick of some sort - a silent script that motivates your actions beyond just "hey rocky watch me push a coin through this table" you will likely have something of more interest to you audiences.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
feher
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Quote:
On 2011-04-11 20:56, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
To all - if you get a premise for the trick of some sort - a silent script that motivates your actions beyond just "hey rocky watch me push a coin through this table" you will likely have something of more interest to you audiences.


I have to ask, the the heck is that suppose to mean ? are you implying something or am I just reading that wrong?
Tim
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Xcath1
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Mr. Townsend can be quite indecipherable.
Dan Efran
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Seems fairly clear to me. Instead of saying "Now I'm going to do the Coins through Table", you could say (for example) "Have you ever found yourself stuck on the wrong side of a wall?", in the hope that your audience will find the effect more personally relevant thereby. That kind of thing; make up your own examples.

I'm not sure why "silent script", which generally means thinking as your character so your body language conveys what's (supposedly) happening. Thinking "now I put it in that hand" when you're not really, e.g.

I'd go with a spoken patter line in this area, but even a silent script could help: justifying to yourself why this effect is interesting. Not exactly KISS, though.
feher
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One thing is right. The whole purpose of this was to demonstrate the KISS method. All these suggestions, ideas, ..etc is taking a simple effect into a more complex routine.
I would bet that if you did the routine just how I do it, and one with the suggestions applied, the spectators would walk away with the same feeling.
Will adding to this routine make it better ? I guess that is up to you to decide. opinions will vary.
Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
pabloinus
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I like it as it is and I'd like for Tim to offer it as a download. I don't see what is wrong with saying "The coins will go through the table", it is an already interesting plot that 1 solid goes through another solid.
I am with Tim here, keep it simple in the description and in the execution
Dan Efran
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Well, we've gotten somewhat sidetracked from KISS by the (not necessarily KISS-based) exciting possibilities suggested by these routines...and the CTT plot in general.

What is there, really, to say about KISS? Talk about it too much and it's not KISS anymore! Meanwhile, these routines, though they flow beautifully, don't necessarily solve the "CTT climax problem" completely, so we naturally wonder if they can be topped by one that does. Sorry! It's an intriguing possibility! (They do solve it adequately; for example the last view of the last coin in the KISS routine works fine.)

I think there's no question that these two routines, exactly as presented, are absolutely superb, first-rate coin magic, and do not need improving (regardless of whether it's theoretically possible to improve them); and the first one, at least, is a great example of KISS in action.

I'm very glad to have seen them both, and yes, these would make very tempting downloads.
fonda57
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I think it's fine just like it is. He says he's going to put the coins through the table and there's no moment that he can be seen doing anything but that.
Someone pointed out that if the coins don't go through the same place on the table, won't that look suspicious or something. I don't think it would. It's magic. Why have a coin appear in one part of the air and another, rather than in one place? Why do coins appear at this elbow and then this knee?
What's the difference, it's magic. There's no real rules, especially as spectator's see it.
I believe Tim thinks through his magic very seriously. And his easy going approach, presentation, make it easy for the audience to see some good magic.
I j
Jonathan Townsend
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Tim's KISS handling looks very good.

The other stuff, like plot, climax and motivation can discussed separately.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
feher
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Dan
I have no problems with ripping apart my routines. But this is not what this thread was about.
I wanted to show how simple something can be done but still look like real magic. We get so caught up in Theory's and how our mind works.
When all you have to do is just go out and do it and learn from your performances. Theory's can't teach you that.
Etienne wrote "My belief, not certitude, is that the Coins Through the Table had initially two short comings:
It makes no sense that if we toss several coins on a table top only one of them passes through the table "
That's why I put my other coins trough table up. In that routine each coin goes through in a different way.
I felt that was one answer to his question.
That's when all the Theory came out. do this, change that. your patter, the card. second phase...etc.
Lets not forget this comment.
"a silent script that motivates your actions beyond just "hey rocky watch me push a coin through this table" you will likely have something of more interest to you audiences."

Sorry it just rubbed me the wrong way.
Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
Dan Efran
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Well, theory is nothing more than wisdom accumulated from more performances than your own, so I don't really see the conflict. But I feel bad for helping turn your thread about KISS into a thread about killer CTT routines in general. (Serves you right for posting two killer CTT routines, perhaps, but I still feel bad.)

So let's get back to KISS and your KISS CTT. (Sorry, I'm still going to keep talking, not just go out and perform!)

Personally I'm glad you posted the second routine...I like the progressive structure...but, unquestionably, your KISS CTT takes the basic premise and presents it in the most direct way imaginable. (And honestly, you've addressed the "climax" concern in it pretty well: you say "this is the last time you'll see it...are you ready?", plus you do the "still there" bit. That really ought to cover it, without any kickers or what have you.)

Watching it without sound shows clearly just how efficient the movements are, with nothing extra and nothing wasted.

Quote:
fonda57 wrote:
Someone pointed out that if the coins don't go through the same place on the table, won't that look suspicious or something. I don't think it would. It's magic.


Sorry, I must respectfully disagree...but only regarding routines in which you discuss a specific soft spot!!!

(Theory warning, Tim. Sorry, pet peeve. You can just skip the rest of this post if you prefer. I'm not discussing your routines at all this time, just this comment about how consistency doesn't matter because it's magic.)

If you didn't mention a soft spot, who cares? Do it anywhere. But if you've actually gone to the trouble of asking someone to pick a spot (as in Push Drop Push, but not KISS CTT) then I figure you really ought to stick with it. Why would you assume they won't remember or care about what you specifically asked them to do (and care about)?

In fact that spot is part of what "makes the magic happen", according to what you've asked them to believe by mentioning it; so that becomes part - a small part, granted - of the very psychology of how the trick fools them. Like if you've been snapping your fingers every time, why would you skip it? At best it makes no difference, sure. But at worst they feel disrespected ("that's not my spot!") or you hurt suspension of disbelief ("hey, you lied about the spot!"). So why take the chance? Is it so hard to hit the spot they pointed to?

Furthermore, once you say "Jimmy, point to a spot", it's their spot, their token of participation in the trick. (That's the whole point of saying it!) Well, when someone picks a card in a card trick, they expect you to work with their card, not some other nearby card. So if you ask them to pick a spot, why wouldn't they expect you to work with their spot? Why wouldn't you?

If you don't want them telling their friends "...and it went through MY SPOT!", then don't mention it in the first place. You never know for sure what details laymen will remember about your routines, but if you're going to plant suggestions, do it with a purpose. I wouldn't want to risk having anybody tell their friends "...and he said it would go through MY SPOT but it didn't!", if it's easy to avoid.

For that matter, if you've asked them to pick a spot and then stick to it, don't you know that's the spot they'll be watching while you move the coin elsewhere? Isn't that trained misdirection worth the tiny effort of being consistent?

Quote:
I believe Tim thinks through his magic very seriously. And his easy going approach, presentation, make it easy for the audience to see some good magic.


That part I agree with.
sanjaya
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You guys think too much. This is one of the more convincing coins through table out there. No funny moves. No gratuitous over handling of coins. It's clean and the effect is clear. Very nice.
Opine Traveler
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Actually, it would be more accurate to say, "You guys think too much to suit me." I mean, unless you're willing to clearly define what's "too much."
Xcath1
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I love Tim's coin magic. He has a "god is in the details" way of performing even simple things which really gives you hope for improving your own magic without being able to back palm 8 Morgan dollar (not that there is anything wrong with that). In addition he has a likeable manner which elevates is his performance further. I believe I understand some of the comments or criticisms as they apply to myself. I am usually happy if I can get away with well performed collection of slights enhanced by what I like to think of as my likable manner. Only rarely do I have really good “hook” (usually written by someone else but which I find agreeable) for a trick and I do believe properly performed elevates a trick even further. An example for me would be Keep My Money Safe SANDY performed by Bill Malone. He invented some nonsense to speak about and although I did not to love it, I loved him and the trick and it inspired me to create my own nonsense. It is the only coin trick I do where I am not just describing my actions. The material is Hokum I almost am embarrassed when I say it but it suits my personality and I truly believe leads to a better trick. By the way, the patter should/need have nothing to do with the method or the KISS principle. I think people may be especially skeptics respond to where the soft spot is on the table. My 2 cents.
Spackle666
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Push drop push has a lot more texture and diversity to me. Far more interesting. Excellent job. A climax would be nice—like the glass and all the coins go through the table—but just some sort of closure would be enhance the experience. John Carney has an interesting version (in Carnecopia I believe), which is good to examine just for dramatic structuring alone. A climax might be able to be created with different patter, but I will leave that loaded argument to the rest of you.
"it's bad luck to be superstitious."
Chris W
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Quote:
On 2011-04-12 23:25, sanjaya wrote:
You guys think too much. This is one of the more convincing coins through table out there. No funny moves. No gratuitous over handling of coins. It's clean and the effect is clear. Very nice.


I agree. There are no fishy moves. It's simple to watch (not sure at all about the method. I do agree that discussing theory can do wonders, and I certainly enjoy having this conversations, but again, that's not the point of this thread. I can watch the first video over and over and not get bored. It's awesome every time.
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