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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Knowing Hypnosis (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

bobser
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It's difficult to write a new topic with regards to hypnosis without certain people claiming knowledge they don't have, or saying someone is lying, or even claiming they personally never fail. Anyway, this query comes up in forums all over the world, literally. Let me give an example of this knowing hypnosis (poorly named, sorry).

Couple years ago I was having severe trouble getting people to forget a number. I asked several pro hypno-mates and the main answers were that the subject wasn't deep enough and/or that I was moving too fast. Or that I should do simpler stuff to begin with, such as the stage hypnotist's favourite of feeling warm/cold.

The absolute answer to the above either exists or it doesn't and I'd be glad to hear anyone's opinions. It would appear that there is a good argument against the saying: "They're either hypnotised or they're not."

I actually came across this very thing just a couple hours ago (I always test prior in the therapy room). Girl does everything perfectly; fingers, hands, heavy/light hands (my favourite test) and finally hands and fingers totally locked. Then hand to eye fixation. Deepeners. Full ideomotor response including hands floationg in air, laughter and hand stuck etc etc etc.

This woman is UNDER!!! But now I suggest that the number 3 is gone... and it doesn't go. Yes I know this might sound crazy but in my experience of both doing and reading/listening to literally dozens and dozens of hypnotists it would appear many witness this and never find the 'ultimate response' to this predicament. Obviously the two options are to re-apply or to smile and move on.

However, your views please (other than suggestions from a couple ar-eholes in here who will have a burning desire to suggest getting properly trained. You know who you are!).

Cheers,
Bob
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Here is my view only my view. There is no absolutes when it comes to hypnosis. No guarantees. She might hallucinate demonstrate all kinds of phenomena but remember the number. that's it I don't have nothing much to add. As you know I believe hypnosis is unstable and unique experience to each individual.

Although the answers you previously got from your hypno mates are probably the right ones ultimately conditioning testing only increases the likely hood of someone following your instructions. It doesn't guarantee it.

Some people will go into a deep trance carry out all sorts of suggestions but "pop out" of trance because they won't accept a simple suggestion...

There is no ryme or reason..

However with experience you can and will learn to increase the likely hood of them following you by many many times.
bobser
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Fair enough, but you're not half as interesting when you're not swearing.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Sometimes reality justn't isn't sexy....

And Im not going to swear because I know you go weak at the knees.
Owen Mc Ginty
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This is not my theory, but to me it makes certain sense (a hypnotist who trained me told me this):

"people like accountants, bank tellers, and those for whom the idea of losing numbers could cause chaos in their everyday lives may not accept the suggestion of number amnesia, simply because it´s a rather uncomfortable idea for them"

I´ve seen name amnesia, changed someone´s birthday, she momentarily forgot the number 4, but when her friends started laughing she counted her fingers again and remembered the number.

I´ve changed the subjects friend´s name, but the subject didn´t accept the suggestion for a change of his own name.

I had the definite subjective experience of having my arm lifted off my leg with absolutely no conscious effort on my part, but didn´t take the suggestion to laugh.

I´m not sure if this has something to do with the suggestion being believable to the subjects subconscious or not, I honestly don´t know. The only explanation I have for my hand lifting is that I was hypnotized, because I know I was doubting that it would work, made no conscious effort and was suprised and amused when it did start to lift off my knee.
I think you might get debate in this thread, but I doubt you will get an answer.
I also hope that I´m proven wrong!
:)
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
dmkraig
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Respectfully, Bobser, all of the proofs of hypnosis you gave can be used as suggestibility tests, meaning that they may or may not indicate that the person you're working with is in a deep trance. I would respectfully suggest looking for other signs such as breathing patterns, pulse rate, perspiration, etc. as better indicators of trance.

However, assuming that the woman was hypnotized, I think Owen gives the best response. You can't make people do something that they really don't want to do. If someone doesn't want to forget numbers--perhaps, as Owen suggested, number accuracy is very important--they won't.

I would suggest, then, moving to something similar. For example, forgetting one's name or how old they are. If that doesn't work, I'd just assume that person is not going to be a star of the show and move on to someone else.
Damon Reinbold
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I agree totally. If the suggestion fails, try something else. I've been doing hypnosis and hypnotherapy since the '60's and have seen just about everything. There is no 100% solid answer. Do the best you can and leave yourself a number of outs.

regards,
Damon
Damon Reinbold
<BR>2011 President, S.A.M. Assembly 71
<BR>2011 President, IBM Ring 90
bobser
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Unfortunately I have to agree with all of the above.
Indeed Owen's: "I think you might get debate in this thread, but I doubt you will get an answer" is probably spot on.

Yes Craig I agree they are all suggestability tests (but CAN induce), however in my experience light/heavy hands is and EXCELLENT test. Even better than locked hands (for the obvious reasons).

Your raised hand is an interesting one Owen. In so much as it's almost more NLP-ish than Hypno-ish. By that I mean it's extremely Ericksonian in a wakened sense.
I had a pro golfer tell me last week: "When you tried that sh-t telling me my fingers would move and my hand would rise up I smiled (I saw him smile at that time) because I decided I'd give you the finger at that point (he laughed)! But, the fingers DID twitch (convincer)and when the hand started rising (fascination)I just thought, wow!"

I also have to say that that's true in my experience about people who work with numbers finding it harder to forget them, albeit I have had a professor of mathematics totally forget ALL numbers. As I'm sure we all have of course.

All good fun.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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The only absolute in hypnosis is there are no absolutes..no two people will respond exactly the same that's what makes it interesting and that's where the art comes in on stage. Creating something with the individuality of responses. Which raises it beyond mere mechanics.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2011-04-12 18:19, mindpunisher wrote:
The only absolute in hypnosis is there are no absolutes..no two people will respond exactly the same that's what makes it interesting and that's where the art comes in on stage. Creating something with the individuality of responses. Which raises it beyond mere mechanics.


Actually 'that's where the art comes in' everywhere, not just on stage. I mean if it doesn't happen with someone on stage you've still got a whole stage-full and with proper mike techniques nobody knows anyway.
But when you're in the therapy room and it's not going down with your client, who's travelled over 100 miles and has just handed you a pile of money, you'd better have a little bit more than your artwork.
The same with the impromptu guys if they're working just one on one with a whole room watching them. Artwork is fine but if you don't have balls of steel as well then you're in trouble.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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