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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
I used to be completely against all illegal immigration no matter what. I've said come here legally or not at all. Illegal means you're a criminal, so I'm better than you. But as I've read more I feel that there have been some points in history where I do understand why they done what they done.
Of course, that was 100 years ago and I'm not saying that's the case currently, just that there have been times... And I still think that outsourcing is a bigger problem than any kind of immigration. And Carlos Mencia is a racist.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-14 13:15, critter wrote: I'm not aware of all the fine details but, at least on the surface, it seems that the extent to which U.S. companies are outsourcing jobs would support the notion that they have absolutely no intention of paying wages to attract more legal workers to the jobs that many illegal immigrants now do, if they can possibly avoid it. I mean, it's the same thing. Both are about increasing shareholder value by reducing costs. If illegal immigration was cut off and companies could no longer hire illegals (I mean in practice versus according to law) I imagine that many corporations would lobby for (and get) an expansion of legal guest worker programs, so that they could continue to pay low wagers to 'furreners'. Something like the H-2A program. say. But much larger, and covering more industries.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Or it could have to do with having such a high tax rate for corporations that countries that have a lower rate will attract those companies. Hmmm first attract the evil corporations so that they in turn can pay the workers better. Wow makes sense on some level, but lets hear a lib spin on it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-14 19:13, Dannydoyle wrote: Sure, that could also play a role (although many economists argue otherwise). But the foreign (by which I mean overseas) employees receiving the outsourced jobs aren't being paid higher wages than the Americans they "took" the jobs from, are they? Like I said, it is about increasing shareholder value by reducing costs. Lower wages are inevitably a big part of the equation.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Oh sure but libs seem to think it is a zero sum game. It is not. Fact is that even if wages are higher here, and between tax rates, and between not having to ship things all overseas, if they can make more moeny here they stay. This is pretty easy, and I can show you economist for economist who says it is the way it is.
Yea you can put up many a lib economist who says otherwise, but common sense tells you that it is true. If they can make more money on the bottom line, then they stay put. Not too tough to figure. But then again they are an evil corporation.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Lobo wrote: " . . . his proposal was allow "only" 300,000 new legal permanent residents every year, so I don't think you have to worry about anyone (anyone remotely credible, anyway) trying to block all foreigners any time soon . . ."
As of the 2010 census, the US population was a little over 300,000,000. The figure of 300,000 is .1% of that. I think that deserves no quotes around the word only.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Should the current percentage of less than 0.4% have an "only" too, then? I wonder what country takes in the largest number of new legal permanent residents annually, and what the largest percentage is, even expressed as a percentage of the country's population. Does England take in close to 200,000 new legal permanent residents annually? Does Canada take 140,000?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-14 23:13, LobowolfXXX wrote: So far as Canada goes, no. It is much more than that. Based on the news release below anyway, Canada takes in closer to double that number (i.e., 240,000 and 265,000 new permanent residents) annually. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/......0-30.asp Actually, hang on. According to this more current page http://www.canadavisa.com/news/entry/can......214.html last year "Canada admitted the highest number of immigrants in over 50 years. 280,636 immigrants became permanent residents of Canada in 2010, more than 6% of what was originally expected. Most of the newcomers were skilled workers."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Danny, our corporate tax rate doesn't matter- because most corporations don't pay it in the first place. We could cut it to 25% and it'd be just fine and dandy... but if we actually enforced it, you'd really hear 'em howl.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Continuing my post above ...
Canada's population is about 34 million. In comparison, the United States (population 307 million) accepted 1,042,625 legal permanent residents in 2010: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/stati......2010.pdf So as a percentage, it is 0.82% for Canada and 0.33% for the U.S. Colour me a little surprised.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-15 00:01, EsnRedshirt wrote: Oh really? While a corporation pays no taxes (they pass it along to you) that does not mean a lower rate would not mean more profits. Obviously you have no idea other than what you are spoon fed by you lib web pages. http://seekingalpha.com/article/257977-h......c-growth http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/2009......ry-oecd/ Oh I am sure it means nothing. Yea not enforced wahh wahh wahhh evil corporations yada yada yada.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-15 08:50, Dannydoyle wrote: From your first link: "This entire picture is flawed. Enter the foreign tax credit into the equation. The tax rate is halved to 17%. Enter the research tax credit and investment tax credit the 17% is reduced to 11%. Enter the section 482 allocation of domestic and international expense, and royalty and patent transfer agreements the rate may be reduced down to 5%. Enter the interparty loans between the onshore parent and its Cayman island bank, where their own money is borrowed and no tax paid on the income, but a full interest deduction is afforded here and we are almost at zero." Also: "The truth is that while the 35% corporate income tax rate is high indeed, the creativity and global reach of U.S. corporations make them among the most lightly levied. Between 2000 and 2005, U.S. corporate taxes amounted to 2.2% of the GDP. The average for the 30 mostly rich member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was 3.4%." http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/econ......Jb6aLQ8L (NB, http://www.smartmoney.com is part of the Wall Street Journal Digital Network.) Anyway, the above is of no real concern to me. Tax your corporations however you like.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
And Danny- I wasn't saying "they pass it along to you". I was saying, as balducci said above, they just don't pay it. Or take away rebates in excess of their payments.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
I did not read this whole thread. I did read the part about labor costs being a small part of the actual cost. I believe the example given was if labor tripled a piece of fruit that cost a $1.00 would now cost $1.30.
If we are talking about labor costs from places like China an India I beieve that the labor costs would be much higher than 4 times. A person who works for say $2.00 and hour overseas a person here in the U.S. with unions and a livable wage will want at lest $10 to 13 and hour for the same job with benefits driving the cost up much higher than the 30 cent senario. By the way a 30 cent increase on a dollar item is huge. It is a 30% increase. So if we are talking about an item such as a car that now costs $20,000 made overseas we are talking about the same car costing $26,000 made here in the U.S. That is rather substancial. If we extend the whole idea to say all your grocery items and you now spend $100 a week on groceries you would now have to spend $130 for the same items.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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irossall Special user Snohomish, Washington 529 Posts |
Non of this really matters anyway. 2012 will wipe out most of the World's population. The survivor's of 2012 will need to band together for survival.
Our new slogan will be "We Work Together Or Else We Die Together". I'll go take my medicine now. Iven
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-15 10:04, acesover wrote: Aces, I actually agree with most of what you've said. No doubt that without overseas labor, prices would rise substantially. But, in the long run, treating workers fairly and buying American is better for the economy. Workers need to be paid enough to afford the products they make. Even Henry Ford knew that when he paid his workers the unheard of amount of $5 a day--he wanted them to be able to afford a Ford. Otherwise we're just in a never-ending race to the bottom.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
With respect to Aces' comment, though, we're not talking about a car, or even all(or even most) grocery items. We're talking about a 30% increase on some components of your grocery bill, and also about offsetting those costs with a tremendous savings on public sector services for more than ten million people.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
On my budget, I get nervous when I spend more than 10 dollars at the grocery store at any one time.
All a matter of perspective.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Lobo, about the immigration numbers I posted, did the updated statistics change anything from your point of view?
Were they different from what you expected? I have no ulterior motive asking, I am just curious.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-04-15 09:50, EsnRedshirt wrote: Right so the lib position is consistant. Corporations are evil no matter what, need to be owned by the government or the people and should never make a profit under any circumstance. Got it. Come on lets at least put it in words that make sense. IF they make more money here, they STAY HERE! Tough to comprehend? Oh wait let me guess as the good lib that you guys are you paid the MAXIMUM amount of taxes today right? OR did you maybe try to pay as few dollars as possible? Come on now... be honest good lib. Did you pay as much as possible or as little? If it is as little as possible, within the law, then why is it bad when a corporation does the same thing?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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