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Owen Mc Ginty
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The one hypnotist I´ve had live training with wasn´t in favour of mixing magic with hypnosis. I didn´t see why at the time, but the more I get into hypnosis, the less I feel like combining it with magic. That´s just my point of view.

Hypnosis isn´t a magic trick and perhaps they think that you are presenting hypnosis this way?
Hypnosis would appear to be a bit more serious than learning how to do a double lift, or palm a card, or vanish a coin etc etc etc. You´re dealing with someones mind, directly. There are potential risks involved, and professional stage hypnotists will have seen a lot of things and had a lot of experiences that you (and I!) have not.

To name a few (I´ve picked these up from reading the forums):

* They´ve probably had to pay insurance (maybe for years and years) and you´re out hypnotizing people without it. This probably puts you in the category of operating irresponsably and perhaps dangerously at least in some peoples book!

* They may have seen people be hypnotized and not wanting to emerge from trance - In a stage show this would happen at the end, and whilst people leave you´d probably sit on and try different techniques to emerge the subject, but if you are in walk around setting then it could really mess up the rest of your evening.

* Do you perform a proper pretalk? Check for "conditions" like bi-polar disorder / schizophrenia / epilepsy etc etc before hypnotizing people? If not, in the eyes of a seasoned, insured professional, you´re more than likely taking unecessary risks and this could result in people associating hypnosis with "bad" things.

I imagine if you´ve read Anthonys Reality Is Plastic then you more or less know how to handle an ab-reaction. But like I´ve been asked in other threads "what are you going to do when someone gets hurt?".

I´m not criticizing you, so don´t take my post as criticism. Most of the guys that seem to be "against" what you say are speaking from years of experience. If you try to put yourself in their shoes, you may see where they are coming from. That doesn´t mean you´ll agree with them, but you might understand them.

Good luck Smile
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
Shrubsole
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Kent, England
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But you completely failed to address the one or ones on here who have publicly posted that they don't like the 'new-wave' of hypnotists as it affect their business and that is why they are as unhelpfully and disruptive as they can be.

And seeing as the ones claiming to be experts say so little, are we just meant to take their word for anything that they do know what they are talking about? (Or not as the case may be)

They seem to do all the deciding: They elect themselves 'an expert' then they decide who isn't one and talk down to them like they have no business being here.

I'll just elect myself an expert shall I? Oh and now I've demoted myself to knowing nothing. And now I'm an Ambusher, Oh wait, now I'm an intermediate... This is fun!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
Jacob Smith
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Ownen, I completely agree with some of your points and I have worried about those things before. I always do a good ammount of pretalk with all my subjects about what hypnosis is and how if they have mental or physhical disorders they have to tell me, so I have that base covered at least. So far the most ab reaction ive had (as bad as this is going to sound) was when one gentleman smoked a lot of pot beforehand without telling me and when I left him in trance for about two minuets to talk to the audience he fully fell asleep complete with snoring which was quite funny actually, but we woke him up rather easily.
Owen Mc Ginty
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I haven´t addressed that because I don´t see the motivation for them to help the so called "street hypnotists"

Allow me to use an analogy:
If I were a dentist, paid for hire of premises, spent years perfecting my technique, paid for my education, and earned good money. Would you expect me to help out guys who watched a few youtube videos and want to pull teeth for free down at the pub? or who want to do dental work for a fraction of my fee, with no insurance?

Except we´re talking about hypnosis, not dentistry. People know that there are good and bad dentists. Many people have strange ideas regarding hypnosis and may blame things like injuries, ailments or abreactions on hypnosis itself and not necessarily the hypnotist.

Just last week I did a suggestability test with a barmaid and used a coin. She was too tense and the test had next to no chance of working. I should have known better and should have dismissed her instead of testing my work. 5 minutes later she made a mistake when giving a customer his change.
Guess who got the blame - yours truly.

Street hypnosis and stage hypnosis would appear to me to be two completely different animals. Street hypnotists seem to pride themselves on impromptu performances, almost "suprise" performances if you will. Whereas stage hypnotists like to build "response potential" - build expectation, stack the deck in their favour if you like. I don´t expect both parties to see eye to eye if they make no effort.

I´m not saying I´m more in favour of either street or stage. I have a personal preference for performing stage. As hypnotists I would have expected people on these forums to be more open to accepting other peoples opinions, their experiences, their points of view, their preferences etc etc.

Instead what I see is akin to a bunch of girls bi*ching at each other and venting their frustration by posting snotty messages on a public forum, somehow convinced that it matters that they be seen to be correct.

I just posted because I thought I could help magician 336 to understand another point of view. Afterall, isn´t that the mission of this forum, or have we forgotten that gentlemen?
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
Mindpro
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Eternal Order
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Owen, glad to see you're understanding this. It wasn't that long ago you were new here asking many of the same questions. The difference is you took the information offered here as an opportunity to understand and learn from those offering the info. Yes, you're still relatively new and still seeking experience and progress yourself, but the first step is accepting information and taking the time to try to understand it.

You are correct, there is no reason, in my opinion, to ever offer magic and hypnosis. Why add something that is not real to something that is the real thing. As an entertainer you strive for believability and credibility which when you have mastered hypnosis is very rewarding and fantastic. Why would you tarnish that by throwing in tricks, slights or illusions? Once most master hypnosis they don't even want to bring magic into it, they don't want to be known, seen, or affiliated with magic. In many cases they actually try to distance themselves from magic. This is also common for mentalism. As it's long been said, if you see someone trying to combine hypnosis with magic, they really don't know hypnosis.

To Shrubs and others who have yet seem to have the understanding that you do, there is soooooo much good information offered here in this forum that I would have given my left nut for when I was learning. It's just sitting here, for free for the taking, provided by those that had to pay for it or learn it the hard way. I just re-read the first pages of these two top posts and there is some great information even offered here.

The element that I think many are missing is the mindset of a professional entertainer and moreso the mindset of a true hypnotist.

Not liking the new wave of street/impromptu hypnosis has nothing to do with our business or how we perform our shows. It doesn't affect or audiences, draw, attendance, or income other than perhaps being given the wrong perception of what true hypnosis is after seeing a street performance. Here in America I don't belive this impromptu movement is that popular and most wanting to get into performance hypnosis are seeking stage due to it's great performance ability, popularity and fascination with the young and old alike. To say that the stage hypnotists here are unhelpful really shows your ignorance and lack of getting it. I've said it before, but there's an old saying "you can't listen when you are talking so much." Perhaps this is why you're not getting this, learning or understanding the information offered. I guess you can't explain red to a blind person. This is not met as a slam or personal attack just a professional observation (which you probably won't get either).

Although available to all worldwide, I think many forget this is an American-based offering and many of the perceptions, experiences and cultural offerings are based on this fact. Again don't read more into this, just simply making a point as I've noticed many that for whatever reason seem to be offended by the experience and input being offered are either street/impromptu fans, European, or both - again just an observation.

Also don't confuse talking down to someone with stating facts based on experience, observation and professional opinion.

All of these made up terms and perceptions (expert, Ambusher, intermediate, etc.), I'm glad you're having "fun", while others seem to have a genuine interest in leaning, seeking advice and progressing themselves and their skills.
Mindpro
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On 2011-05-16 12:28, Owen Mc Ginty wrote:
As hypnotists I would have expected people on these forums to be more open to accepting other peoples opinions, their experiences, their points of view, their preferences etc etc.


Yes, this would seems correct as you explained, but we are not always dealing hypnotist to hypnotist. More often lately it's been Hypnotist to A.) wanna-be hypnotist/enthusiast, B.) amateur, C.) magician or amateur magician, D.) somebody who just recently saw or discovered hypnosis, or E.) someone who has learned to do a few mind tricks, suggestibility tests, or pseudo techniques that mistakenly believe they are hypnotists.

Your statement would be right when we are talking apples to apples and oranges to oranges. But not Kumquat to Watermelon.
Anthony Jacquin
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If you fall in catagories A to D understand you are welcome here and I and many others will do anything we can to help you. Don't rise to the bait of those who could just be arguing in their spare time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
Shrubsole
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Fully agree Anthony. On other forums I go to they would be banned for baiting a response by repeated use of derogatory words like "Ambush" to label a whole group.

And you can see that it's run like a little bully gang when one praises another for finally seeing it the bully's way and so accepted into their little gang. How schoolyard is that?

Still, when they expose their whole motives as being financially driven, how can anyone trust what they say? In fact one wonders why they come here as it's not to help those who need it. They seem to only be here to grind people down and put people down until they see it their way or just disrupt every thread to do with impromptu hypnosis. (And now we fully understand why they do that)
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
Shrubsole
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"mindset of a true hypnotist" What elitist rubbish! And of course all decided by the elitists themselves.

They go on about Hypnosis not being a trick and being 'real' but then only consider themselves as 'True hypnotists' (What are the other hypnotists, who are really hypnotising people using real hypnosis, doing?)

So again 'true hypnotists' seem to be only the self-elected elite gang and all decided by them based on if you do it their way or not. Do it all their way and stroke their ego and you too may be considered a 'true hypnotists' as defined by them and only them.

Disagree with them and/or don't do it their way and you will never be considered a 'True Hypnotist' even if you are truly hypnotising people.

Elitist pap!
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
dmkraig
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On other forums I go to they would be banned for baiting a response by repeated use of derogatory words like "Elitist" to label a whole group, especially when using it in an insulting way.

On the other hand, you might consider using a different term. An "elite" is simply, " a select group of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes." [wikipedia] So your denunciation of a group of people with specialized training, experience, intellect and wealth as a result of those things is, at best, laughable.
Jacob Smith
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Thanks guys and Ant I love the link, I grew up and am continuing to grow up on Monty Python!
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