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Dannydoyle
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On 2011-05-05 19:38, rpierce wrote:
I've read many books, viewed at least 50 dvds all on hypnosis, just had live training and successfully hypnotised subjects under guidance. Does this make me a professional hypnotist, absolutely not. It does give me a foundation to go out and learn thru practice.

I have yet to hear any good alternatives for gaining experience. One of the principals of performing hypnosis is absolute confidence, you cannot present yourself as a student needing practice, you have to be The Hypnotist. We need willing subjects, it cannot be a practice session, it always has to be the real deal.

To those critics out there, how would you propose gaining experience, certainly not a stage show before you're ready? We need people from somewhere? where would you suggest?

To answer the question above about what constitutes an experience..........magnetic fingers works for 95% of the public and to most, that is an experience, something most do not expect, I know mentalists that do that as part of their show as a prelude to an effect.


Here is why this is a bad plan. If you want to do a show and charge money you need to know a bit about theater. Blocking, stage pictures, rehearsal, practice and the difference in practice and rehearsal. Knowing what the audience sees vs what you are trying to show them, what you are saying vs what they are hearing.

NOT ONE of these things are learned by your method. See you seem to be under a common misconception. A hypnosis show has VERY LITTLE to do with hypnosis! The induction lasts for a few minutes. The show lasts for over an hour. You want to concentrate all your effort on the one part of the show that means the least and quite simply we could do the show WITHOUT IT if we chose.

People have managed to be stage hypnotists for a *** long time prior to the advent of ambushing unsuspecting people along the streets. Why is it suddenly tougher to do the same that has been done for literally HUNDREDS of years?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Owen Mc Ginty
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Mindpro - excellent post.
Thankyou for the advice and thankyou for spending the time to write all of that.
This has given me food for thought and I think I finally have some understanding of where the stage guys are coming from.
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
hypnokid
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Street hypnosis is fun. Not everything we do is to earn money. If you've seen The Trilby Connection DVD you'll know it doesn't involve any ambushing. Members of the public are usually very interested (but I guess that's because I'm not an aggressive, arrogant, idiot stage hypnotist) and most are receptive to seeing what their minds can do.

If you prefer the routines on stage (matching trunks in the bath) then that is a matter of taste and style. Don't generalise that all street hypnosis is this or that unless you've done a lot of it yourself.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
Owen Mc Ginty
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I find there to be a tremendous amount of irony in the fact that you call others arrogant in a post that makes you sound arrogant.
If you want to do street hypnosis and you´re not interested in making money then you are well within your right to do so. But posting in this thread bashing stage hypnotists reeks a bit of you being pi**ed off at a certain scottish stage hypnotist.
I think you may do well not to generalise regarding stage hypnosis shows, unless of course that is, that you have done a lot of them yourself? Smile
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
Mindpro
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"Kids" post is a great example of the difference between an experienced pro vs. an amateur. Most come here to get help from professionals or those more experienced. Enjoy your little hobby but don't try to present yourself on a level for which you can't compete. This is exactly the mentality and example of what I was referring to, clearly proving my point. What a joke! It's because of guys like this that so many greats that used to participate in this forum refuse to now or have moved on.
mindpunisher
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Safety and insurance are THE most important areas in any professionals remit. They are completely ignored by the street "hypnotist". The title itself is very wrong because these guys are not hypnotists they are cowboys that do not know about the possible risks to the public or choose to ignore them.

If I am upsetting you guys then I consider my posts worthwhile. I really hope I upset you until one day you find yourself in a situation where you have seriously injured someone or find yourself being sued rightly or wrongly and only then you might realise what I am talking about...

Here is the truth peddlars of this crap never mention insurance because it hurts their sales yet a very high profile hypnotist that sells products and tell you online you don't need insurance told me privately he would never dream of doing any public demo without it.

Kid is an idiot hes one of the reasons we have laws and general safety guidelines put together by the home office. Its because of idiots like him we had real problems with stage hypnotists.

An idiot is an idiot no matter where they "perform".

No screening for mental or emotional problems, no insurance, uncontrolled environment, no real training, no safety gudiline knowledge, = no brains.
rpierce
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I too appreciate all the time and effort Mindpro has put into this. I do have a professional mentalism act, and I open for a stage hypnotist. In my extended length showa, which I call 'going to the dark side' I use pseudo hypnosis as a ruse to cover for other effects, basically the 'old witch doctor effect', and it works.

I fully enjoy watching my buddy perform his stage hypnosis, albeit, its not what I want to do. So I have had the opportunity to learn from him. One of my original inspirations into mentalism was Derren Brown, for me, he successfully blended hypnosis and mentalism to the point where I could not be sure. It wasn't until years later of reading the books and watching all those dvds and finally seeing Anthonys material that it started to come together for me. Part of Anthony's material specifically deals with blending hypnosis and mentalism. Attending his training was mind blowing. I consider myself a mentalist, first and foremost, but being able to do this in earnest is one of the powerful tools I've seen. Granted, I have a long way to go, the more you get into this the more you learn you do not know. This could be the ultimate in preshow tools and the audience would never know hypnosis is involved, or the subject for that matter.

There is a principal in mentalism, its not such a bad thing to fail once in awhile, I find it makes my entire act more powerful. It gets the audience rooting for you as opposed to trying to catch you out. Once I did a time prediction, got the minutes and completely missed the hour, in that moment I saw it as a failure but the audience argued that its much harder to get the minutes and it was the most talked about effect I did that evening. The point of that is, I do not see it as a negative for people to see me work at it and maybe fail, I personally find it more impressive to see someone with the b**ls to try it with only one or two. The reality of that is, in the context of a mentalism show, the audience has no idea how far you intend to take it, so whether you get to some real phemonem or not, they have no clue, if you get there, its powerful, if not, nothing is lost, it just appears to be the setting for your next effect.

So I understand some of the arguments here, and they make sense in the context of the traditional stage hypnosis performance, if that's the direction you are pursuing. That is not the direction I am pursuing.
What I saw Anthony accomplish was nothing short of amazing. As a mentalist, I was fascinated and enthralled as I believe my audiences would be as well. I saw him, with no induction, from across the room, stick someone to their chair, how powerful is that? The ultimate mentalist tool.

So no, I do not wish to construct the classic stage hypnosis performance, I want to be the guy who can perform anytime anywhere under any conditions. That is who I have been, hypnosis just takes it over the edge. Impromptu performances help create my reputation, the guy who needs no props and just does these incredible effects at the drop of a hat with nothing. Even though these are not all done on stage, the buzz continues and spreads thru the audience. I did a stage show a few months back and some people in the audience had seen an impromptu performance I did years ago, they were spreading that story all over creating a buzz. I bent a wine glass in a restaurant years ago, I am known for that now and I only did it once. I believe this stuff is more powerful than we know, not just in the moment, but the profound effect it has on those that witness it. So I do not believe that a true hypnotic phemomonem needs to be restricted to the stage, even if my ultmate goal is to incorporate this into my stage performance. I am no expert in hypnosis by any means, I aspire to be, and I will continue reading, studying and seeking more training as opportunity allows, in the meantime, I need to practice.
mindpunisher
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Be careful what you wish for hypnosis just might take it over the edge one day. No matter what you are pushing. Safety screening for mental and emotional problems is a MUST when you work with the public especially in your part of the world where sueing is a national sport.

Look what happened to Homer Simpson.
Dannydoyle
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You guys keep mixing whether stage hypnosis is worthwhile or not. Either you want to do it or you don't.

You snap at me about how to do it, about how to go about it without street hypnosis. I give you a perfectly plausable way, and yet it does not fit your need to rant, so you ignore the idea. This is the problem I have with the new phenemenon. You don't want to hear anything that isn't your own opinion.

Also I want to know what you guys are going to do the first time you hurt someone. It WILL happen it is only a matter of time. Got a plan?

You guys are critical of stage hypnosis because you are clueless about it. You have done none of it but read some books or have a friend who does a show or what not. That is not experience. I am not critical of the street hypnotists, I just have questions.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rpierce
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Well, I hope everyone feels better now that we have all vented. There has been some great discussion here. If nothing else, it shows that there are many different perspectives on this and everyones opinion has valid points, albeit everyones perspective seems to have just a tad bit of tunnel vision aimed at their own opinion of how this is supposed to be, sometimes to the exclusion of any differing opinions. I propose that we are not all correct in our thinking and we are not all wrong either, yet we can all learn from each other, and isn't that the point of this forum.

Just to be clear, Anthony's training did an exhaustive segment on health and safety, enough to scare the crap out of me and give me a profound respect for this phenomomen.

Meanwhile, getting back to my original intent of this thread. One thing is abundantly clear, you cannot improve at any discipline without practice. The one recurring issue with aspiring hypnotists, how do I get to practice? Where do I find willing subjects? Friends and family typically are bad choices, people in your professional setting can be a bad idea as well. Hmmm........that seems to leave the rest of the world, the general public as it were. So I am still looking for a group of aspiring hypnotists to get together and figure out a way to accomplish this, to gain the experience and confidence we need, without putting health and safety on the back burner.
Owen Mc Ginty
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I want to do stage hypnosis. I don´t intend to snap, if that´s how I have come across then I apologise.
I´ve spent money on books, DVD´s and training - admitedly probably not the best training. The guy who has done my live training doesn´t explain himself in a manner that is very conducive to my learning, although he appears to have a kind of natural talent for hypnotizing.

I haven´t hurt anyone to date, and I take precautions so as not to hurt anyone, i.e. never try things like the falling forwards/backwards test with anyone too big for me to handle, never give the "sleep" command to someone who isn´t already sitting down and easy to prop up if they should happen to "rag doll".
Do I have a plan? no, I don´t. I´ve limited myself to prevention at present.
I don´t have insurance, although I´m looking into the matter and wouldn´t do another stage show without it.

I´m not criticising stage work, I´m trying to walk the fine line of preparing for stage work whilst remaining safe. I need to practice, I owe that to anyone who puts themselves in my hands on stage. And it appeared to me that it was best to practice with one subject at a time (for safetys sake) before progressing to a group of maybe 10 or 20 people on stage that could potentially be harder to control.

I´d be curious to know how some of the pros started, and what they would change if they were to start over again, but with the benefit of hindsight. Questions are good Danny, they keep us learning. Thanks for your input.
If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
mindpunisher
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While learning hypnosis for stage the early shows are always going to involve the highest risks. Although doing hypnosis in the street or on stage will ALWAYS carry risks for certain people who volunteer which means there is always a risk for the hypnotist.

I started out after training. It wasn't the greatest training but it did cover the basics. My first 6- 12 shows were where I really learned how to do shows. And where I made most mistakes. To the point where somebody could've been easily hurt. And I will admit I wasn't insured for thie first couple of shows. But I got insurance quickly after that when I made the money from the first couple of shows. Ironically these were the highest risk shows.

Today its different in that the NO win No FEE culture multiplies the risk of being sued on the grounds of neglegence where insurance and not having a license (in the uk) is a huge baseball bat which any Lawyer would beat you up with should you ever be unlucky enough to find yourself in that position. Its not a question whether you are screwing with the 1952 act its more about whether you can be sued for neglegence should someone decide to based upon being injured or whatever.

I started out like everybody else I did a few uninsured shows. You will always take risks throughout your career. The unexpected happens regularly.

I don't know if I could've changed anything. It was risky I realise that now looking back at the time I wasn't aware of it as much as I am now. Ignorance is bliss so they say...Im not sure now though.
hypnokid
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So many generalisations, so much emotion. I can't say MP provokes any reaction other than me rolling on the floor holding my sides to prevent them from splitting.

Some stage hypnosis shows are good and some others are poor. Some stage hypnotists shout the odds and make unfair generalisations about street hypnotists, to which I respond in kind.

While bleating on about laws and insurance, MP fails to answer the question over whether his 'impromptu' show on youtube meets the standards to which he expects others to ascribe. It appears to have been conducted in a licensed venue in the UK; it appears to be stage hypnosis and MP appears to believe he is inducing a trance when he hypnotises (as he mentioned in another thread). At what point does the 1952 Hypnotism Act fail to apply and where does insurance stand on a matter like this? If the insurance doesn't apply because the show infringes the 1952 Act then surely the show falls into the dangerous category. Or did MP have a license for the show and purely named it 'impromptu' to gain some of the credibility conferred on those who can do it anywhere, any time?

Note, I haven't made any generalisations over the quality of the training and experience any of you have, nor the quality of any shows or performances that I haven't seen. If you wish to continue to tell me about street hypnosis - something I do which you do not do yourselves, and which most of you seem to believe is different to what you do do - then feel free. You can even call me arrogant if it makes your bells ring.

I have no problem with hypnosis on a stage, although I do think that some of it lacks imagination. I only have a problem with people telling me what I should do based on their own warped assumptions of how I do it. I haven't come here asking basic questions (unless "How does it work?" is a basic question) and I haven't bragged about my abilities or past performances.

Perhaps if everyone chilled out a bit we could have a sensible conversation about it?

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
Dannydoyle
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Wow I think I should elaborate a bit to clear up some things.

I for one am not really even a fan of most of the training courses offered live! I do not believe they prepare you properly for the stage. I think that quite often they create clones more than they create performers. I am not going to say anything about any course spacifically. But they are by no means the be all and end all. Not by a long shot. Many are offered by guys who can't manage to get work in the fist place!

As to the "how would I start", well I have no idea today. Seriously. I learned magic, and hypnosis from a mentor. Never spent a penny on lessons. BUT I took the long way round the barn mind you. The process is much longer than a few weeks or even months. It is thourogh though. It is a lifetime relationship. I am perfectly aware this is NOT the way it can work for everyone. It IS the way a huge percentage of guys did it back in the day.

As for many stage shows are bad, well let me just say this. I get literally dozzens of DVD's a week from guys looking for work. As a rule there are FAR more that are well below par than are of any real quality. But it has always been so and will always be so. Getting any form of training is no measure of what will or will not be a successful, or quality show. Starting out as a street hypnotist does not mean you will be good or bad, it only means this is the road that this particular person has chosen.

I don't have any particular inclination to tell anyone about street hypnosis. If that is what you want to do hey go for it. (Incidently you do come off as arrogant, with very little experience to back it up.) I do not think it helps anyone in the least learn about actual stage hypnosis. I think that nobody really considers enough about "safe" when they do stage hypnosis, much less the street stuff. But that is an opinion.

It is what it is. No less, but certainly no more.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Deepintrance
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Here's a quicky question?
How many Stage Hypnotists would be capable of successfully hypnotising people they have just met??? That is ....WITHOUT the stage set-up, WITHOUT all the pre-show advertising, WITHOUT the expectation produced by various music tracks and special lighting and WITHOUT the row of empty chairs waiting expectantly on the empty stage??????
I have met a few stage hypnotists who would be scared sh*tless to try to do what the "Street" hypnotists can do.
The Stage work is SO much easier......most subjects are already in trance before the show begins. That's the whole point of the advertising etc:...draw in the most receptive people to the show.
I'm NOT knocking the Stage Hypnotists;they have to have talent to produce a good flowing show.
I'm just pointing out that we all have different skills.
Mindpro
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To a good stage hypnotist it shouldn't matter. All of the things you mentioned just enhance the talent and ability already present. I have hypnotized people on the spot I've never met and even hypnotized people by television satellite two thousand miles away. They had no idea it was going to happen, they just thought they were going to be audience members at a live t.v. show. No music, no pretalk, no pre-qualifying, etc.

They may be a bit out of their comfort zone as to many stage hypnotists those elements are part of their show. But many of us have been at a festival or on a cruise ship and were asked to go on unexpectedly or unplanned and still have dome just fine. However I do also agree with you as I have seen a new breed of stage hypnotist emerge over the past decade or fifteen years that seem to be able to only exist within the confines of their own show. If presented with other circumstances they would sh** their pants. This also seems to be common for the DJ or magician turned "stage hypnotist".
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2011-05-06 12:46, Deepintrance wrote:
Here's a quicky question?
How many Stage Hypnotists would be capable of successfully hypnotising people they have just met??? That is ....WITHOUT the stage set-up, WITHOUT all the pre-show advertising, WITHOUT the expectation produced by various music tracks and special lighting and WITHOUT the row of empty chairs waiting expectantly on the empty stage??????
I have met a few stage hypnotists who would be scared sh*tless to try to do what the "Street" hypnotists can do.
The Stage work is SO much easier......most subjects are already in trance before the show begins. That's the whole point of the advertising etc:...draw in the most receptive people to the show.
I'm NOT knocking the Stage Hypnotists;they have to have talent to produce a good flowing show.
I'm just pointing out that we all have different skills.


I have never seen anyone "scared" to do it, just people who have found it absolutely pointless. I could easily do it, I just have no need to.

I am not saying anything about anything, just that self delusion is alos a skill.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Now before I get misinturpreted let me clarify that last sentence. I mean that I have seen MANY bad hypnosis shows where it is just a guy trying to convince himself that someone was in trance, or that the show was good or what not. I have also seen many street guys doing the same thing. They delude themselves into thinking that this or that happened. It comes to look like mentalists looking for "hits" or what not. I am not taking shots at street hypnotists only here.

Bottom line is that a bad hypnotist on the street or a bad hypnotist on the stage is simply a bad hypnotist.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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That has to be the worst thing about street hypnotists. The delusion that they are actually better than pros that have been doing it for decades. Its that delusion that will prevent them from becoming really skilled and educated hypnotists.

I agree with Danny except Ive NEVER seen a good hypnotist that performs on the street. Show me one clip. Ive been waiting for years now it still hasn't happened. The very best I have seen is a pale imitation of a very old worn out stage skit that personally I would never do because it is so old and over used. But even that was a pale version.

The reason why the street phenomena exists is because it IS EASY. And it appeals to attention seekers who do not want to put in the time and resources to learn proper hypnosis.
hypnokid
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And here we go again. First, many thanks to Danny and Mindpro for taking the higher ground. I do appreciate your opinions and agree that there are bad hypnotists on the street, just as there are bad hypnotists on stage and in clinics. Equally there are good hypnotists in those categories too.

MP, do you not rate Paul McKenna or Peter Powers? They are possibly the most famous hypnotists who have performed on the street.

MP, please tell us how impromptu your impromptu show was. Given your interest in the illegal and dangerous, it would help me to understand whether you practice what you preach.

HK
Too much style to be a stage hypnotist.
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