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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
I don't know if this fits in the coin-section, but it was inspired by something Jon Townsend said.
We'll see what happens with the thread... Reading between the lines I discovered a theme in Jon's postings which should provoke a lot of reactions and interesting opinions, but strangely hasn't. "How do you make your (coin) magic more Magical?" If I understand it right, this was the very reason he came to the 3-fly plot. Not as a technical variation but to make a more visual magic. Jon keeps asking this question a lot of times in his post (which are, in my opinion, always thought-provoking). Funny, but the majority of the replies on his posts keep going back to methods, variations, and the dreaded "hunt for credits". And so I can imagine mr. Townsend smiling and abandon a thread that ends up in methods, variation and credit-hunting...posting that very same question somewhere else (a lot in the coin-section!): How do you make your magic more magical? Of course some of us might have given him a straight answer, though hidden in the endless discussions of methods and... That's why I started this new topic in the coin-section. And maybe my direct answer (and hopefully a lot of others) will be more in full view. I've been thinking a lot the last 5 years how to make my things look more magical. I studied and watched the ones that inspire me: Tommy Wonder, Juan Tamariz, Fred Kaps, Dean Dill, John Carney... I tried to discover why it is that their magic, to me, looks so much more magical than other terrific magicians. Among many thoughts, one stands out: Slow, crystal-clear, deliberate movements. To me THAT'S what makes sleight of hand more magical! That's also the goal I constantly strive for in my routines: slowing down movements to make it crystal-clear for a spectator to appreciate what happens. And still...when I showed John Carney a routine with coins his reaction was that it looked very clean, but to make it more magical I should slow down even more! As John put it very well: "They should savour each individual phase, not only the routine as a whole. Especially for those who use methods like the Han Ping Chien or Striking Vanish, or do flurry-routines, did you ever realise that slowing down, while seeming impossible with these type of sleights, not only makes it more magical to the spectator, but also will require a lot of creative thinking to make it work? (Which will make you grow as a performer!) So there you go Jonathan. That's how I make my thing more magical. It is not an anwswer on method, but more on motivation and visioning and creating and...yea, Magic. Isn't that what this is all about? Who follows?
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
HiveMind Veteran user 303 Posts |
I agree. I'd just like to expand on some thoughts. I think in slowing down, what you really want to do is slow down the moment, to bring the person in that moment which can be accomplished by slowing it down, (do some mysterious wave or other magical nonsense, etc.)
When you get someone in that state they are mesmerized and just about anything is more powerful, including emotions and suggestion. But as with any other art, I don't believe that you should do it all slow. I think some quick stunners can set a stage... for instance Missing Link by Chris Kenner is fast. You can't really slow it down, but you don't have to. You get people's attention. When I first started doing it I told a short story with it so it didn't seem so quick, but I found that people started commenting on my story and seemed to think that the story was meant to distract them from seeing what I did. I don't use the story now, I use Kenner's simpler idea. It opens a door though, that's for sure. I think of routining magic like playing a song on guitar or reading poetry. You have to let it live, let it breathe and you do that by slowing down. If you want to excite, speed up, but maybe you don't always want that deep astonishment, maybe sometimes you want people to be elated. In poetry, we call those moments of timely pause a caesura (Seh-zu-Ra)... all art forms ,I can think of, use them in some form or another to intensify emotional impact. What I sometimes do is freeze for just a split second in a memorable pose and make eye contact, then let the flow continue. It sort of give them time to catch up to you. Or at least I think it does.
"Free will is an illusion." - B.F. Skinner
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Threeatms New user 56 Posts |
Nice way to put it Hive ... I found this thread very intriguing just because I was thinking of the same topic yesterday - How to make it more magical. Some of my routines are not as appreciated as they could be at no fault of the actual trick. I realize it is all in my presentation and from there I am still learning which rhythym fits which tricks better. Even more, which rhythyms do I work easier with and which do I need more practice on.
For me, nerves seem to play a big role in rushing through sleights. Fear of getting caught. Move so fast they can't see the sleight NOR the 'magic'. I wish I had the problem of moving too slowly but I don't - not even close! Can anyone offer any advice or perhaps an example (video would be great!) of how timing can affect the magic? I think it would be very educational (for me) to see a trick performed at a novice speed (fast) and then at a more professional and magical speed. Any takers? |
Jem Veteran user Singapore 342 Posts |
This looks like its going to be a wonderful thread, thanks for starting it Dan. Thought-provoking indeed. Its always great when we start thinking about how we can make things look more magical. Can't wait to hear the input from others. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of valuable advice offered.
For me personally, I agree with Threeatms that sometimes people like myself (due to my inexperience) tend to go too fast due to our anxiety of getting caught. That's something I have to bear in mind the next time I perform. I remember reading a quote some time back here in the Café which goes something along the lines of "the best way NOT to arouse suspicion is to perform a sleight slowly". |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Good topic. Here are just a few quick thoughts.
There are many ways I attempt to make the effects I perform more magical (and entertaining), but one thing I try to do is focus on "motivation" and streamlining. In other words, I don't want any movements or patter to be extraneous. For example, if I pick up a coin with one hand and transfer it to the other hand, I want there to be a logical reason in the audience's mind for me doing that so that they don't wonder (maybe even just subconsciously) why I didn't just pick up the coin with the other hand in the first place. If I say something humorous, it might be because I want to misdirect the audience's attention away from a move I'm about to perform which wouldn't fly if the audience was burning my hands. Or the patter I select might be motivated by the particular prop I'm using -- for example, I'm very proud of the patter I developed for Mesika's exploding lightbulb because it justifies my use of a lightbulb in the first place and it justifies the reason that the lightbulb explodes. Here's something else I do. I try to view an effect through a layman's eyes (which is difficult to do) and imagine different ways a laymen might conclude the effect worked. I then try to tweak the effect to eliminate or cancel out those possibilities. One last quick thought -- the audiences' reaction will tell you what's magical and what isn't. I might try the same effect a number of different ways and select the final approach based on the method that plays best. Larry D. |
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
I like the word "mesmerize" that HiveMind uses. In fact I like (and recognise) almost all of the ideas posted here.
Larry mentions that the audience's reactions will tell you if something's magical. That sounds logical, yet, there are so many reactions an audience can come up with. To name a few (and I'll stick to coineffects to keep it topic-related): -Screams, for instance when the last coin ends up in their hand... -Silence or gasps, when you perform a beautiful paced shadowcoins-type effect... -Laughter, when you end a cointrick with a Jumbo or mini-coins... -Intense staring, when you animate or levitate a coin... -Uttering words of amazement, when turning their bill inside out... These are some of the reactions we all know, that can be described easily. Very often I encounter combinations, much more difficult to capture, which you'll know as well. Could it be that different "feelings of magical experience" can be felt by your audience dependend on the magic you perform, your style, your choice of effects? Years ago a bookings-agent told me that if he saw different magicians perform, the one that would get the loudest laughs and applause was the best magician. Those words fustrated me beyond belief, because in that time I completely went for the gasps. In recent years I've been in so many different venues that I can provoke lots of different reactions. I still can't match with the roars of laughter some of my (more comedy related)collegues can get, but being able to know or expect what kind of response you'll get with different approaches ables you to research magical experiences in all of its melanges. What do you think? ps. HiveMind, you brought up another item that's been on my mind for a long time. Should we always strive for deep astonishment in our performances or do we vary "hard" effects with "soft" effects to let them (the audience) breath? I'll start this new topic "Hard vs. Soft effects" in the Food for Thought section later. Dan
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Sometimes making things more "magical" means using ie.
1. an E.S. 2. C/S coin In other words combining great routining, sleight of hand and an occasional gim_ _ _ _. 3. Great Music 4. Playing with a routine for 20 years 5. Playing with a new routine and changing it after it was born 2 minutes ago 6. Use of colors ie of the coins, closeup mat and props. My wife gave me a bag that has magic beans embroidered on the front 7. Weaving a magical tale 8. Magical Noises (instead of magical wands) from my trusty harp(harmonica), chimes, or Wahhh Wahh or Boing Boing from my trusty Mega Mouth Toons Edition. The above are just a few thoughts and my 2 liberty half dollars worth. Harris Deutsch Laughologist
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-08-11 14:05, Dan LeFay wrote: I agree completely. Personally, the reactions I always strive for are screams, applause, and laughter. As Dan mentions, other reactions also can indicate that the audience experienced something very magical and that they were very impressed, for example, intense staring, but the first three reactions I mention above are the ones I go for. The funny thing is, I've worked events with other magicians and had agents come up to me afterwards commenting on what great reactions I received (screaming, laughing, and applauding), just as Dan mentions. And I don't think that necessarily means that I was a better magician than some others working the event, but the reactions do get noticed not only by agents but by others at the event for whom you'll be performing shortly when doing walk-around (put another way, when you perform for a group and they react very vocally, you've pre-sold yourself to the next group you'll be approaching). Larry D. |
carlb New user Seattle 77 Posts |
Nice thread and great thinking from all of the above.
I just want to throw in my support on a few points: Slow down! The point that magic is like poetry or music is a very good one, variety in pacing and presentaton is key for sustaining attention and captivating an audience. But the overall idea that sleight of hand is more magical and more deceptive when performed slowly and smoothly is critical. Logical, deliberate, and motivated actions! Don't walk on the moment! Allow the audience to react. If you learn anything from watching David Blaine this should be it. (Not that its his original idea or anything, but I beleive that what makes him so effective and that one reason HE is on TV and most of us are not is that he never walks on the moment. Not walking on the moment is really the heart of his schtick.) For example: there is one scene in one of his specials where he vanishes a coin from the back of a young man's hand. It is one of the most wonderful audience ractions I have ever seen. Blaine vanishes (ala Raven) the coin. Tick Tick, Tick. The guy stands there with his hand out, Blaine stands there and says nothing, he displays his hands empty (one time). Tick, tick. The boy looks at Blaine, looks at his hand. He says "Cool." Tick, tick, tick. His arm is still extended, he continues to look at his hand. Blaine just stands there. Tick, Tick, Tick. Deep astonishment. And I agree with Dan - there are so many possible reacts. I think targeting effects for types of reactions and choreographing and routining them for maximum entertainment (e.g. surprise, deep astonishment, delight, laughter, deep astonishment, surprise, deep astonishment) is a great "food for thought." I look forward to reading more on this thread. |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-08-11 18:28, carlb wrote: Superb advice and great observation. |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-08-11 18:31, Larry Davidson wrote: ... and a "moment" might be in the middle of a routine as well and not just at the end... Slowing things down a notch really seems to help. When you get too caught up in your patter, you're not watching for audience reaction. When you have a routine that is patter heavy, be careful that you're not just rambling. When you have a routine that has little or no audience involvement, I think you need to be extra careful about paying attention to the audience and being able to respond to their reactions. Watching, listening, pausing, can really help. I noticed this when performing the chop cup routine. When I revealed a load, it was much much better if I paused and said nothing for a beat or two. Take a breath! Relax. Enjoy.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
carlb New user Seattle 77 Posts |
Yes Frank - very good advice.
I am currently going through the excercise of literally scripting all of my routines. (By this I mean typing out, editing, printing, rehearsing, editing some more, etc.) Not only am I cutting large numbers of words in the patter but I am actually inserting: "Pause. Wait." At critical moments. (I am also finding this to be a great tool for streamlining the methods of the effects as well as helping with motivation, logic, etc.) |
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
Vait a Veek...
I've been doing U3F for quite some time now. Decided for the effect because of a magical motivational speach I give for groups up to 60/70 people. Though I am completely in love with the routine, it took me a long time before I discovered how the magic worked. The vanish and reproduction of the coin, when done right, go without a sound. So the audience literally needs a couple of seconds to realise what has happened. I found out I did not give them those seconds. Instead I run over the Moment, on to the next phase. So 3-fly became more like a 3 coin flurry...bwaah! I've been thinking how I fell into this trap, since I'm the one who pat's himself on the head for doing everything so slow. My answer is guilt. Simply holding out extra's or gimmicks filled me with guilt. Afraid to flash something between the fingers made me rush such a beautiful and magical routine. When I changed that, things completely changed. And, for instance, when the last coin flies, I first clearly show 3 coins in my receiving hand. Then I completely open my left hand to show there's nothing there. Now in my head I count: 1...2...3...4...5...6...and only then the reactions are what they should be. Yes, it takes that long for them to realise there are really only 3 coins in play...and no coin is left or hidden. It has become one of the greatest learning moments of the last year, because now my eyes are opened to recognise these flaws in other routines. Suddenly an already good routine becomes powerful magic because of a personal insight in it's more esoteric workings, rather than the technical workings. A truly wonderful moment. At the last FISM I have watched the unbelievable Armando Lucero. Not only his magic, but also his interaction with the audience, his choice of routines and his bodylanguage. Everything utterly Magical. He uses , what we call in Holland, The Pregnant Pause. Ortiz called it: First make them care, then make them wait! His hand goes to a card to lift it...he waits, rubs his fingers, almost as if he's not shure if...THEN he lifts it and, my God, your heart misses a beat! He does not say wow or hey, does not make a funny line, does not even look triumphant, he just looks to what he has done, along WITH his audience. What stood out in his close-up performances was that the applause of the audience is so very sincere. It is not induced by a stance, a joke or a line. When he finishes an effect you just find yourself clapping with the crowd as a real release of magical tension. The only other magician I had that with was Tamariz. Yes, it's strange to admit...I've seen quite some famous magicians do wonderful close-up magic for groups of magicians, with great responses. But Juan Tamariz and Armando Lucero were the only ones who turned magicians into real clapping, cheering laymen with goosebumps on their arms and sometimes tears in their eyes. There is SO much to learn!
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
YES, pauses are very critical to stage and close up work.
We used to call it stepping on a laugh. Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
It reminds me of the joke where you say to someone, "Ask me what the best part of my comedy is." When the person begins to ask you the question, you say, "Timing." It's similar to the "interrupting duck" joke.
Larry D. |
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