|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
OK Randy,
The magi is at a nude beach, completely naked with "four" coins sitting on a spectator's hand. The magi clearly shows both sides of both hands in slow motion. People feel his hands and arms. He picks up the coins slowly and still shows that there are only four. The spectators put their fingers on the coins one by one and count. Now coins across commences with the hands never going near anything. If they think there's an extra coin, THAT would be magic. The magician would have had to make it materialize from nowhere. I think it's really easy to suspend disbelief on a sh***** coins across routine. It just looks like real magic. I don't think very many people believe that it IS REAL magic. I just think they have NO CLUE as to how it's done. They're just left with WOW which is exactly what you want. I don't think anyone is sitting smuggly going "Oh of course. I see it clearly. There's an extra coin." That assertion has no justification. Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
|||||||||
Myrddin Regular user Belgium 108 Posts |
Hi Dan
I believe that 3-fly can get at least as great audience reaction as coins across. You provided prove of this two years ago, when I enjoyed your performance of 3-fly at our club meeting in Diest (Poetje Pah). The audience watched the routine with widely opened eyes and eventually even more open mouths . Quote:
On 2003-09-17 14:43, Dan LeFay wrote: Since I don't do 3-fly, I can't compare. I can only say that my four coins routine contains the three "ingredients" you mentioned above and although this routine isn't that technically demanding, I'm quite pleased with the audience's reaction. The effect of both the production of the coins and the coins across is enhanced by the sound. They can "hear" the magic, which is also a presentational point in my routine. The coins across is a very, very old classic, closed hands, version, in which I also introduce a stranger coin. The last coin travels to the spectator's hand. To learn when one gets 3-fly better audience reaction, I think it's a good idea to introduce the three "ingredients" in the routine and try it out as you described... Peter |
|||||||||
Randy Loyal user Rochester, NY 261 Posts |
Mike
You are talking about a standard coins across (I consider a sh*** coin an extra coin) so I agree with you. You said that people have no clue with a sh*** coins across and I also agree with that. However, with 3-Fly I think that people very easily get a clue that an extra coin is used and no matter how well you hide that coin, people "feel" it has to exist. They know that the coin did not disappear from one hand and appear in the other and since everything is so open, only one option exists and therefore spectators feel they know the secret. I think that this is the reason why people react more strongly to the traditional coins across.
The Buffalo Get-Together - A Close-Up Magic Convention
|
|||||||||
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
All the above makes me want to think about a 3-Fly "IN THE SPECTATOR'S HANDS" -- It may be possible.
Go to Tarbell 7 and see Kneet, a coin item of mine that Johnny Thompson uses...
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
|
|||||||||
Myrddin Regular user Belgium 108 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-09-17 16:30, Pete Biro wrote: Hi Pete, I can't find a routine called "Kneet" in the Tarbell Course. What I did find in volume 7 are Pete Biro's "No l*****g coins through table" and Peter Thompson's "Disjointed Account". I'm not sure which routine you are refering to, but both provide nice ideas for a close handed 3-fly. The coins through table routine uses a gaff I didn't try out yet... Peter |
|||||||||
mattpuglisi Veteran user New York 321 Posts |
My experience with 3-fly has proven to me that it is as strong as the presentation it is given - a fact frequently pointed out by its originator, Jon Townsend, one equally applicable to all magical effects. If 3-fly is performed with a "watch what I'm going to do" attitude (and as far as I've seen, this usually how its done), then one should not be surprised if it falls flat.
The difficulty here is that with 3-fly it is much harder to give it an emotional reality and communicate it to the audience than it is to master the effect's mechanics.
Lack of invention is the mother of necessity - Robert Nozick
Instagram: @matthewthomas00 |
|||||||||
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
A possible presentation is that the magician becomes increasingly frustrated that the coins keep going back and forth between hands as he tries to do an effect.
first with 3 coins... but alas, there are only two... oh, there's the other one.... we'll let's try it with just two coins... oops, now there is just one and two in the other hand.... now none! try to put them in your pockets one at a time to get rid of them, that doesn't work either, etc. etc. I'm sure this has been done but it seems like something I could work with.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
|||||||||
Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-09-17 17:57, mattpuglisi wrote: I would add to that statement that with Three Fly it is much harder to give it an emotional reality and communicate it to the audience than it is to do that with a traditional, closed hands, coins across... There is an enormous opportunity to engage the audience in a traditional Coins Across. The effect is longer, there are pauses in between each phase, there is the element of sound, there can be a finish in the spectators hands, etc. All of this engages the audience in a way that so far, has not been done with Three Fly. Eye Candy is the term that seems to be applied to TF most often, and it seems appropriate. I have long railed against the coins across being presented in the traditional fashion, saying that it is a ******* ******* coin trick, in the sense that you do it, do it again, do it again, do it once more, and then you are done. There is no plot, so the audience sees it as a challenge effect. Even with these problems I consider it a STRONGER effect than Three Fly, for the reasons stated in my previous post. Let me offer a solution to all these problems, and some reasons why I think this a better approach. First, the routine and the plot, so to speak. I'll quote myself, from a previous post on this forum: "Four coins, no gaffs, shown in the left hand, right hand empty. Hands closed. Right hand opened, 1 coin. Hand closed, opened again - two coins. Hand closed, opened again - three coins. Hand closed, opened again - four coins. Left hand opened - empty. That's the effect, and that's what it looks like. I first saw it done by Earl Nelson in 1979 at a convention in San Diego, at 2am in a hallway in the hotel, after way too much to drink. Reconstructed it and showed it to Earl, only to fool him - he told me at that point that he used a gaff - I don't. I like it, but I never do it. I also do Bertrams Passing the Half Bucks, and 3 other versions, including a Jennings type routine with the gaff - "Peripatetic Coins". But rarely in a show, and rarely for the public. Mostly for Magicians. Why? Because there is no decent presentation. It is all show and tell. I do it, then I do it again, and again, and again, and then I'm done. It is like the ambitious card. There is no real plot! 30 years and I'm still searching. Anyone got any ideas? And don't tell me that the O henry ending is an ending - it's not! I'm looking for a theatrical solution... " OK - that's what I wrote here not too long ago. I have a presentation that I have done for the public but was not going to tip. It will sound a bit dry, but it plays beautifully. I tell the spectators that: "I am required by the "Magicians Union" to do the next trick in every show, otherwise I'll be dropped from the membership rolls. So let me do this quickly, get it out of the way, and we'll get on to the fun stuff right afterwards, OK?" The first coin is simple and quick. I explain that they couldn't see it because they had no idea what was coming, but for the second coin they should be prepared. When the second coin arrives they hear it. I tell them the sound acts as a distraction and I offer them ear plugs so they'll catch the third one. The third one arrives and I tell them they should have taken the ear plugs! (They always refuse when you offer them...) By the way, the displays are very clean each time you open the right hand, and you never go near the left hand or open it, as each coin travels. Also, this is done with 4 regular coins, no gaffs. The final coin can be done in thier hand, and when you open your left hand the spectators actually grab your wrist, check your sleeves, etc. I usually pick out someone in the audience and adress him at the end of the effect, telling him that my union # is 2331, make sure he includes it in his report! "Now that we've got that out of the way, let's do some magic!" The impossibility of the effect is pounded home with each arrival, and the sound re-enforces the idea of a coin ARRIVING from somewhere. The cleanliness of the right hand display after each arrival eliminates the possibility of extra coins. The left hand NEVER opening after the coins are shown there at the beginning of the effect, and the fact that the right and left hands never come near each other, further clarifies the effect. There is very little "clutter", the constant opening and closing of BOTH hands, that can be confusing or distracting in many routines. So, the clarity, simplicity, the shows, the sound, and the in-the-hands finish, all go a long way toward making this a magical event. I don't think there is anywhere near as much to work with in Three Fly. Best, PSC PS - This is not meant to be a complete description of the effect as I perform it. I am simply illustrating a few things. I have left out lots of lines, plot devices, and slieght descriptions, so please, don't judge the effect, consider the philosophy!
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
|
|||||||||
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Myrddin: I have three things in Tarbell 7 (see name index) but Kneet isn't there... Senior Moment!
I forget where it is published, but it is currently in Johnny Thompson's lecture (with credit). Basically you have a Lap**d coin and it is NEXT TO your KNEE, when you go under the table with a glass and slam down a coin (?) on top, the coin falls into the glass when you spread your legs, where it arrives with a CLINK.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
|
|||||||||
HiveMind Veteran user 303 Posts |
It is the visual nature of the fingertips coins across
that appeals to me. BUT I do a hybrid. I LOVE my first production/vanish because it happens so they see it happen in the same view path, and the angle makes it look like it jumps several feet with no movement etc... It's a flash of silver. The Final Vanish I have I love too. You crush up the coin and blow it back into reality on the other hand... showing the first hand totally clean. The second phase however, there was nothing particularly interesting... so I put it in a closed fist situation, where the coin at the fingertips is still visible, but the arrival and vanish are only percieved by the audience in stages. The first they hear the coin go...CLICK! and you push it to your fingertips and the second stage you show your other hand totally empty. Then I go into the crush vanish. I guess my point is, that people don't have to have a traditional coins across, THEN a 3 fly or just one or the other, you can use them together to strengthen each other. Also Ive knocked around using the sound of a coin being stuck like a cymbal and letting it ring out as the sound of the "fingertip travelling" diiiiiiiiiiing! it's a pretty sound... I just don't know yet if it would play well. (would require a gimmick sound maker which would complicate the effect so I don't know...)
"Free will is an illusion." - B.F. Skinner
|
|||||||||
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
A lot of cool and interesting ideas here guys!
It seems that at least most of us agree that there are alternatives to 3-fly that have more audience appeal. Considering the amount of suggestions and enhancements (not to mention the amount of threads on this particular effect!) it still seems that the effect is dear to a lot of us! Any ideas why? Peter, thank you for mentioning that! It's cool to hear my performance was received well (though it is still 3-fly for a room full of magicians as I recall?). Paul, that's a funny presentational hook you have there. I have used something a little similar like that where I tried to make the routine look progressive, which involved pulling up the sleeves and letting the spectators hold my wrist. A couple of years ago I switched back from 4 to 3 coins across, and later added a "strangercoin". Frank, your idea of losing control I like as well. I can imagine doing a 3-fly and then offer to repeat it but instead of the coins flying, they disappear one by one...
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
|||||||||
Myrddin Regular user Belgium 108 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-09-18 08:36, Dan LeFay wrote: Actually you had three or four performances for a different group of lay people each time. But it was a very "magic-minded" audience you worked for. I also recall you started with the light bulbs, and you did the cups and balls, color changing knives, and "some card trick" ;-). If my memory is still intact, you shared the crowd with Tonny Van Rhee, Flip, Jean-Paul, and others. My contribution for that evening consisted of table hopping, and mixing beer and wine (I mean in a gastronomical way ). Peter |
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The trick was designed to test some techniques for doing coin magic at the fingertips and on open hands.
The techniques work, and offer the OPTION of having some coin magic happen in more open display. The basic issues of routining, presentation and audience interaction are invarient. It's just like having CGI effects in a movie... nice though what makes the film work is how the story flows and how well one can relate to the characters and situation.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
Great analogy Jon!
Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
|||||||||
mattpuglisi Veteran user New York 321 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-09-18 17:44, Mike Powers wrote: Indeed! We can always count on you to make things clear!
Lack of invention is the mother of necessity - Robert Nozick
Instagram: @matthewthomas00 |
|||||||||
Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
Yes! I remember T.A Waters having an essay in his monumental book Mind Myth and Magick where he also made the analogy of good magic with Star Wars and all its inferior offsprings. I think he said that people would judge the success of Star Wars on its SFX and decided that SFX were the essentials to make their own mega-succes movie...
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
|||||||||
ftlum Special user Roseville, CA 730 Posts |
Chris Kenner remarked at the LVMI that 3 fly should not be done alone; it should be in conjunction with other routine segments. Also, he recommended against doing it for a large group, as it's harder to achieve the misdirection. Your eyes need to direct theirs.
-- Frank |
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
It really helps to use your entire head to direct attention. The eyes will work for small shifts in attention when they are already looking at your face. Or as John Ramsay put it; "look where you want them to look" and "use your head".
Nice to hear that Chris is giving good advice.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
KirkG Inner circle 1391 Posts |
I have three ideas about 3-fly.
One, due to the boldness of the routine, most magicians are too nervous and dance around, wave their hands around, or go too fast when performing. Two, the magic is coins, which make noise when they move normally, but are now moving silently as well as invisibly. Three, the more open handed, palm view approach of Chris Kenner's technique, I think, looks better than the closed back of hand technique, used by R. Paul Wilson. I don't want to say more out of fear of revealing too much on a website, but ask for more clarification if that is too vague. I have found that at first I was nervous and concentrating too much on the moves. Now that I am more secure in the handling, I can concentrate on the presentation and doing it slowly, so they can see the before and after clearly and openly, when that last coin goes, they are thrilled. Kirk Grodske |
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Kirk, I suspect you are thinking about the coin trick in a constructive way.
I abandoned the fan-at-fingertip coin appearances after watching Curtis do his 'magnetic coins' thing. Exaclty right about noise and 'catching'. I wanted to avoid 'catching' gestures. Though I've posted this suggestion before... a coin stand might help with some of the effect-routine problems. Two coinstands might even allow some nice options Been doing the trick for just 20 years now, and still toying with coin magic in open display. Jonathan Townsend
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Making 3 fly stronger (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |