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AlejandroJRangel
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David Rowyn is not just a friend, he has quickly become one of my favorite writers on interesting subjects pertaining to the Art of Magic. I find myself eagerly awaiting his next post and always find the information to valuable not to share. So with out anymore WS, I'm happy to share Youtube-is http://davidrowyn.posterous.com/youtube-is
Prager
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Great article!

I agree 100%.
Jose Prager
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www.e-mentalism.com
Secret products for mentalists.
Gorecki
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Very interesting thoughts.
I'll have to start following this guy...
Schism
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Same here, thanks for the share
Dr. Eamon
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--------eXtrementalism--------......IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND.....
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Presentation is everything...
Great writing!
davidrowyn
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Thank you for the kind words.

//
yin_howe
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Very good read..
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
krmagic
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A really good article. I agree 100 % with every point and every comparison you made with the olden day method of sharing and the latest method of sharing.

I also agree with Dr. Eamon. Presentation is what matters!
oralroberts
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Interesting article. thanks for sharing.
daffydoug
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Very deep article. Much food for thought. Yet, in spite of it all, it STILL saddens me that our secrets are so easily accessible at the touch of a button. And that part where in the future we may perform an effect and they could INSTANTLY match it to similar videos, well, that was frightening.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Matthew Wright
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As reasoned as the argument may be it doesn't make it any less frustrating that someone can whip out their phone and see how a trick is done seconds after seeing it. Magic is all about presentation-yes, but no matter how well presented a trick is there will always be people who want to know how it is done. These people will not only know the secret within a couple of minutes-they are usually the tyoe of people who will then try to show off by sharing the information with everyone who was watching with him- whether they wanted to know the secret or not!
MaxfieldsMagic
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Great article. Love the witty, logical writing style. Not sure that performance and presentation will keep magic afloat when there are truly no secrets, though.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
daffydoug
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The whole thing causes a sort of deep inner pain or grief in my heart.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
truthteller
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Yet, had it not been for a culture of exposure, you would most likely not be here in the first plaxd to experience said pain or grief.

isn't the Café nothing more than YouTube exposure without flash? It's just we think we deserve to be in the tree house because we bought a magic trick or book sometime in the past - or can claim we bought a magic trick or book in the past.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Quote:
On 2011-05-19 15:47, truthteller wrote:

isn't the Café nothing more than YouTube exposure without flash?



But chances are folks aren't going to expose your effects mid-routine by visiting this site. Such "exposure" as exists on the Café usually comes in the form of questions and answers concerning limitations of marketed effects - ie, angles, free choice, etc. Not quite the same threat as exposure videos.

Quote:
On 2011-05-19 15:47, truthteller wrote:

It's just we think we deserve to be in the tree house because we bought a magic trick or book sometime in the past - or can claim we bought a magic trick or book in the past.


Not sure the issue is so much "[do] we deserve to be in the tree house" as "will magic be worth studying, practicing and performing when there are no secrets?"
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truthteller
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What's the difference between them accessing the info immediately via YouTube, or taking a moment to find out about it here? I have known laypeople to have found this site looking for secrets.

But that begs the question, today - with secrets for sale everywhere you look, in some cases being advertised on tv in the middle of a magic special (like e did during the Blaine reruns), who are we protecting the secrets from? Obviously we are ok with them being shared with anyone who has a credit card, or in this case, Internet access. So why should we be upset that secrets are on YouTube?

Is YouTube different from the library books of years ago? I know dozens of 'magicians' who either get all of their magic info from YouTube, or got started via YouTube.

These people are now our 'compeers' here at the Café? Are they not equal participants in your eyes, entitled to all the secrets magic has to offer?

Or should some secrets be more protected than others? Is allowing some people - people who go to a magic shop, or visit a magic club, or buy tricks from Internet dealers who have online forums - access to secrets somehow better for magic? If we are upset that laypeople can access our secrets so readily, shouldn't we be equally upset that magicians can watch a show and within moments be exposing it by committee in the name of magicians helping magicians?

I agree with Davids article, but I think we in magic always want to exempt ourselves from the prohibition - because after all WE are real magicians.
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2011-05-19 15:47, truthteller wrote:
Yet, had it not been for a culture of exposure, you would most likely not be here in the first plaxd to experience said pain or grief.



Man, I started doing magic when I was five years old after watching Mark Wilson on TV's "Magical land Of Alakazam". Looooooong before our culture became a culture of exposure. And I didn't have Youtube to help me get instant secrets to tricks. I had to visit my library, and the books that were available then on magic SUCKED!!! I mean those old dusty, mildewed books were filled with the crappiest tricks on planet earth! Effects that no magician would want to include in his act! Worse than slum magic! (So Yes, Youtube IS very different than those old library books back then, because Youtube indiscriminately exposes the GOOD STUFF!! The material in those library books I could read when I was a kid was was pure crap, but you can go to Youtube and find the secrets to effects that working pros use to put bread on their table. That is, until the masked nincompoop came along) But I learned them and used them as a kid because of course, to my young mind back then I thought they were great. Of course, looking back here in 2011, I have a totally different perspective.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
jackofspades11
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Interesting article. I haven't ever read anything by him before but I like it.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Quote:
On 2011-05-19 17:54, truthteller wrote:
What's the difference between them accessing the info immediately via YouTube, or taking a moment to find out about it here?


Maybe I don't think there's as much exposure on this site as you seem to. I can't think of too many times I've seen blatant exposure here, and when it has occurred, the post or the thread was soon deleted. Most of the "exposure" on the Café occurs by connecting the dots when people ask questions while trying to determine if a marketed effect is something they want to buy. However, connecting the dots often requires a certain foundational knowledge of methods, so I see that as an entirely different - and lesser - threat to a performer than a quick and dirty exposure video that can easily be found with a search engine and exposes everything soup to nuts.

Quote:
On 2011-05-19 17:54, truthteller wrote:

But that begs the question, today - with secrets for sale everywhere you look, in some cases being advertised on tv in the middle of a magic special (like e did during the Blaine reruns), who are we protecting the secrets from? Obviously we are ok with them being shared with anyone who has a credit card, or in this case, Internet access. So why should we be upset that secrets are on YouTube?


If a creator is selling his secrets, then they're fair game to anyone with a credit card. But the author of this article was talking about spectators Googling their way to secrets for free in real time, which is a different problem.

Quote:
On 2011-05-19 17:54, truthteller wrote:

Is YouTube different from the library books of years ago? I know dozens of 'magicians' who either get all of their magic info from YouTube, or got started via YouTube.

These people are now our 'compeers' here at the Café? Are they not equal participants in your eyes, entitled to all the secrets magic has to offer?

Or should some secrets be more protected than others? Is allowing some people - people who go to a magic shop, or visit a magic club, or buy tricks from Internet dealers who have online forums - access to secrets somehow better for magic? If we are upset that laypeople can access our secrets so readily, shouldn't we be equally upset that magicians can watch a show and within moments be exposing it by committee in the name of magicians helping magicians?

I agree with Davids article, but I think we in magic always want to exempt ourselves from the prohibition - because after all WE are real magicians.


My understanding of the magician's code is that you never reveal a secret - unless it's to another magician with a genuine interest in performing the effect. So yes, magicians are in a special category.

But we shouldn't conflate that with the issue of intellectual property. If I know an effect that belongs to another magician, it's not mine to give away - even to another magician. No problem sharing my own stuff (not that I really have any...), but I'm not going to tread on someone else's IP by giving away secrets he or she sells for a living. I may, however, refer the interested magician to the source so he can look it up or buy it himself.

None of this, however, really goes to the point of the article, which is how do you survive in a world where non-magician spectators can burn your effects in real time with nothing more than a smart phone. You can have a charming manner and a great presentation, but if you don't fool them, you can't accomplish your job as a magician.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
daffydoug
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That's the crux of the problem. We may indeed fool them for a few seconds, but as soon as they hit that Youtube app, they can get "unfooled" in a matter of seconds. And even worse, even as they are siting there in a chair as a member of your audience. Man, they don't even have to leave the building any more.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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