The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » No Prom... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
Christopher Lyle
View Profile
Inner circle
Dallas, Texas
5698 Posts

Profile of Christopher Lyle
What do you think?

http://shelton.patch.com/articles/shs-se......%7C62184

My thoughts are that the young man needs to be reprimanded but this seems extreme to me.
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2755 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Granted. Furthermore, not a single person in the comments section supports the principal.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Two things come to mind.

1. Blanket policies tend to have unwelcome consequences.

2. Remember the asymmetry between what the boy can say to the press and what the school can legally disclose. There may be more going on than we can know.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11159 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
The kid is a senior. Can't wait to see his next sign after graduation. Smile
~michael baker
The Magic Company
abc
View Profile
Inner circle
South African in Taiwan
1081 Posts

Profile of abc
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 12:24, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Two things come to mind.

1. Blanket policies tend to have unwelcome consequences.

2. Remember the asymmetry between what the boy can say to the press and what the school can legally disclose. There may be more going on than we can know.

John

I agree but don't you think that, even worst case, they should allow the kid to go regardless. The bad publicity for the school is already enough.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
If the information in the link is all correct, I think he should be permitted to go. If, however, there is more to the story (e.g. he had a concealed weapon at the time) then I have no opinion to offer.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
View Profile
Special user
762 Posts

Profile of rockwall
The school principle is obviously a racist!
Andrew Zuber
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2659 Posts

Profile of Andrew Zuber
Some people REALLY shouldn't be educators. If you want to abuse your power, go join the police force.
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
The school evidently has a policy regarding this, at least being on school property after hours, which is trespassing. Playing the "IF" game, what if the kid got seriously hurt on the school property, as litigious, as people can be in these times, it is easy to understand why the school has the policy.

The other side of this is people have gotten lazy. It takes too much time to actually do their jobs, part of which would be taking things like this on a case by case basis, examining all the facts and coming to a just decision. Hanging cut letters on the building is a far cry from spray painting the message on a brick wall.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
It's interesting that the principal's strict application of an existing policy has been (at least by implication) characterized as "an abuse of power," "lazy," or "leading to unwelcome consequences." The reason things like this happen is that the OPPOSITE framework - using discretion on a case-by-case basis - leads to more lawsuits and liability through an inconsistent (and therefore potentially discriminatory, arbitrary, and/or capricious). "That's the rule, people are aware of the rule, and that's how we enforce it every time" may lead to some seemingly perverse consequences, but it's more easily enforceable in today's CYA society. And to the extent that that society is problematic, the coverers didn't start covering until they were forced to.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
View Profile
Special user
I believe I have
819 Posts

Profile of acesover
A picture of the posted invitation on the school should be in the yearbook and right under it should be the picture of the couple at the prom with the caption saying something like, "who can forget this"?

Of course he can be disciplined but not punished to this extent. The only reason I could see this sort of punishemnt is if it was a prank to embarass the girl or he has had an on going discipline problem. Neither of which seems to be the case.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
Well, to be fair, as someone mentioned before, we really don't know everything that happened. There are always three sides to every story, side a, side b and side c (what really happened). As you said, the punishment may actually fit the offense. Then again, it may be excessive.

I use the term lazy, because when zero tolerance or blanket policies are used, it becomes easy to just dole out the punishment without actually having to spend the time gathering the evidence, examining it an make a rational decision.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2011-05-13 02:08, Dreadnought wrote:
Well, to be fair, as someone mentioned before, we really don't know everything that happened. There are always three sides to every story, side a, side b and side c (what really happened). As you said, the punishment may actually fit the offense. Then again, it may be excessive.

I use the term lazy, because when zero tolerance or blanket policies are used, it becomes easy to just dole out the punishment without actually having to spend the time gathering the evidence, examining it an make a rational decision.


It's not done because it's lazy; it's done because it reduces exposure to liability.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
Quote:
On 2011-05-13 10:21, LobowolfXXX wrote:


It's not done because it's lazy; it's done because it reduces exposure to liability.


That might be but there could be a little extra effort. There is always a risk of a suit. It's the nature of the beast. But fair is fair. Following this line of logic then the police shouldn't arrest anyone or use force or a doctor or hospital shouldn't treat anyone because there maybe a law suit that follows.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
Quote:
On 2011-05-13 11:29, Dreadnought wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-13 10:21, LobowolfXXX wrote:


It's not done because it's lazy; it's done because it reduces exposure to liability.


That might be but there could be a little extra effort. There is always a risk of a suit. It's the nature of the beast. But fair is fair. Following this line of logic then the police shouldn't arrest anyone or use force or a doctor or hospital shouldn't treat anyone because there maybe a law suit that follows.


"Extra effort" means not following the letter of the rule consistently. You can put a positive spin on it and call it "fair," or "good judgment," or whatever the opposite of lazy is, but in court, the terms are "arbitrary," "capricious," and possibly "discriminatory." The best defense is "We have a black-letter rule that all students know about, and we enforce it consistently."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
irossall
View Profile
Special user
Snohomish, Washington
529 Posts

Profile of irossall
If the crime took place before 1:00 am would he be going to the Prom? Time seems to be an important factor here.
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/11......776.html

"The filing claims the team discriminated against Wampler, who is Indonesian, because of her race."

"[Her attorney] said a white cheerleader who was on the squad last season posed in a provocative photo while she was on the team. She said the white cheerleader wasn't disciplined."

Was she fired because she was Indonesian? Maybe...I guess they didn't notice she was Indonesian when the hired her, possibly?!

Or did someone who didn't want to be "lazy" exercise his judgment and determine that in the case of the other cheerleader, it wasn't so bad, and it would be "fair" not to enforce the policy to its fullest extent?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
Could be. How am I am I supposed to know. I wasn't involved or privy to any information concerning this.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
Dreadnought
View Profile
Special user
Athens, Georgia
836 Posts

Profile of Dreadnought
It's also nice to know that as a detective, I was ' "arbitrary," "capricious," and possibly "discriminatory." ' I could have saved so much time if I hadn't insisted on gathering and examining evidence.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
View Profile
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1192 Posts

Profile of LobowolfXXX
"Contingent solely upon one's discretion."

Arbitrary isn't inherently negative; it just gives rise to the argument that such discretion was used improperly.

Unless I badly misread your comments on Arizona's immigration law, this is exactly your concern with it. The law says on its face that it can't be enforced illegally (including through the use of improper blanket racial profiling), yet you suspect that the exercise of the judgment of the officers entrusted with enforcing it will lead to such an abuse of discretion. They'd probably think that was "nice to know," too.

Of course, as police officers have to make life and death snap judgments about public safety issues, we (rightly) defer more to their exercise of discretion than other people's. Colts' management won't be able to say, "I thought someone might be killed, and I only had a split-second to decide whether to fire her or not."

AFAIK, none of us was involved or privy to any inside information about the prom, either. We just know what we read. What I read, without looking for it, in this morning's AOL news highlights, was a story illustrating EXACTLY what I said about the prom story - when discretion is exercised in such a way that a rule is strictly enforced against some, but not others, there is a greater risk of legal liability.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » No Prom... (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL