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Dreadnought
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My problem with the Arizona law and some of the others like it is that it is designed to target Latinos and Latinas. The way it is written is that it can be used to enforce immigration on anyone who is here illegally. Yet, judging from the rethoric coming from both sides it was plain that it was drawn up specifically targeting the Hispanic population. However, the biggest problem was that it violates the dignity of the human being which transcends beyond the secular world view. Correct the violations against human dignity and there is no problem.

The problem with the school's case is that things are rarily just black and white. There are shades of gray. In my original post I brought out both sides of the argument and even stated the school taking the action it did to protect itself from possible litigation. The example I supplied was the child getting hurt on school property, after hours, at night, doint something he had no business doing. I just said that the problem with laws and rules like this is that it allows for laziness on the part of those investigating the matter, because they don't have to look at all the gray stuff.

As a police officer, while serving as a patrol shift supervisor, I once instructed a young officer working a traffic accident with serious injuries. At fault was pretty cut and dry. The person didn't yield at a stop sign. However the witness statements said the other vehicle was moving at an extremely high rate of speed. In absence of skid data, the speed was determined from the last known point the speeding vehicle was observed vs. the distance to the point of impact.

I instructed the young officer to determine the vehicle's speed. He protested. It was cut and dry. Why spend the time to figure out the speed. I simply told him:
1. Because I, as the supervisor, said so.
2. But more importantly because it may have been a contributing factor to the accident. Which should this go to civil court it may be a critical piece of evidence.
3. Because it is your job. Don't get lazy and take he easy way out and simply issue a ticket to a woman near death and on her way to the emergency room.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
LobowolfXXX
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It does allow for laziness, and it leads to results that almost everyone would disagree with (like this one); I'm just saying it's probably not caused by laziness, at least not in the main. It's caused by the fact that if you let this guy slide because it seems fair, and you enforce the rule strictly against the next guy, because in the next guy's case it's not so benign (but maybe it's close), then the next guy sues you, because the selective enforcement has given rise to a plausible inference that you're discriminating against the second guy for whatever reason. The school knows that this guy isn't a problem; but they also know that they may have to justify in court the position that they're not singling out the next guy.

Take the case of the cheerleader. We don't know what the pictures of the white cheerleader were like, but let's say they were relatively tame. Maybe it seemed perfectly fair and reasonable when they didn't fire her; it might have arguably fallen under the same team rule, but an extremely mild case. So they thought it seemed fair to let her keep her job. Fast-forward to the new case, where the new cheerleader is in Playboy, and the discretion of the team now is that Playboy is over the line, so they fire her. But now their fair and reasonable action with respect to the first cheerleader is being used as evidence against them in a federal lawsuit.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Big Jeff
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I use the term lazy, because when zero tolerance or blanket policies are used, it becomes easy to just dole out the punishment without actually having to spend the time gathering the evidence, examining it an make a rational decision.
[/quote]

You mean like the TSA searching little old ladies and 7 month old babies because they might highjack a plane?
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-05-13 20:04, Big Jeff wrote:
You mean like the TSA searching little old ladies and 7 month old babies because they might highjack a plane?


That one's a little different...that's the PC Gone Wild.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dreadnought
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Let me reiterate. I support the school and kudos to them for taking the action. I just have a problem with policies like this, because people get lost in the shuffle, people operate with blinders on and things become to easy. Each case should be judged on its own merits.
Peace

"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..."

Scott

Would you do anything for the person you love?
tommy
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So what is the big deal about a prom?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
LobowolfXXX
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Breaking news...looks like he's going to the prom! School backed down.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 00:45, tommy wrote:
So what is the big deal about a prom?


Only tommy could ask this question.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
ed rhodes
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I didn't go to mine. I figured the only person I wanted to ask already had a date, turned out she didn't go either.
I tried to make up for it by marrying her.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 18:55, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-14 00:45, tommy wrote:
So what is the big deal about a prom?


Only tommy could ask this question.


I think it's a much bigger deal in the U.S. that it is in other countries.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
acesover
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Quote:
On 2011-05-15 00:53, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-14 18:55, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-14 00:45, tommy wrote:
So what is the big deal about a prom?


Only tommy could ask this question.


I think it's a much bigger deal in the U.S. that it is in other countries.

John



Well this is The United States and to be honest I do not think other countries have "proms" as I think prom is probably a "word" limited to the U.S. Remember we said "prom" which is a distinct word. Not saying some other country's equivliant of a "prom" but a "prom" here in the U.S.

Here in the U.S. whether it be junior or senior, to most High School kids it very important in their high school life. Maybe when looking back after becoming adult and seeing it for what it is they may see it differently.


By the way I think I saw somewhere where he is able to go now.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-15 23:58, acesover wrote:

Well this is The United States and to be honest I do not think other countries have "proms" as I think prom is probably a "word" limited to the U.S. Remember we said "prom" which is a distinct word. Not saying some other country's equivliant of a "prom" but a "prom" here in the U.S.

I don't know what you mean about "prom" being a distinct word. Prom is simply a popular abbreviation used for promenade. Many (most?) countries do have them. They are enormously popular in some countries but, as most of us have a somewhat limited knowledge of what is popular in other cultures, we may not be aware of it. Some examples are given here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prom
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Yeah, I was suggesting to Tommy that the Prom is a bigger deal for the guy in the story than most of us non-Americans could appreciate. We don't use the word here, but High School Graduation (is it the same thing) is a big event--bigger than it deserves, IMO. Oh yeah, my daughter's is in a couple of weeks...

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-16 00:10, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

We don't use the word here, but High School Graduation (is it the same thing) is a big event--bigger than it deserves, IMO.

Really? In my experience, the word "prom" is widely used in Canada ... at least in Ontario, where I grew up, it was. Though I think "formal" might have been even more popular.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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For many in the United States, the Senior Prom is almost a rite of passage. Try telling a 17 year old girl that it's not important!

Bob
(two daughters)
stoneunhinged
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In Germany there is nothing like a prom. It's more like a couple of weeks of celebration, normally with multiple parties and a class trip. I think they do have a big party of some kind, but it's just part of an extended celebration.

I went to a private Christian school in Hawaii. Dancing was a sin, so of course we had no prom. But on the night of our graduation, we all got leid, multiple times. I still remember the smell quite vividly. Plumeria, mostly.
stoneunhinged
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Oh, and regarding the topic, I agree with John, as usual.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2011-05-16 01:29, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-16 00:10, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:

We don't use the word here, but High School Graduation (is it the same thing) is a big event--bigger than it deserves, IMO.

Really? In my experience, the word "prom" is widely used in Canada ... at least in Ontario, where I grew up, it was. Though I think "formal" might have been even more popular.


I've heard Ontarians use it. But in Alberta, it is simply "grad".

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
ed rhodes
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Apparently, the principal has backed down due to "international interest."

http://shelton.patch.com/articles/lesson......reversal
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-14 13:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Breaking news...looks like he's going to the prom! School backed down.

Yes. The school decided no longer to be lazy, and will now examine situations like this on a case-by-case basis. Smile

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/In......9675.php

"Under school rules, because Tate was suspended after April 1, he couldn't go to the prom with date Sonali Rodrigues. But on Saturday, headmaster Beth Smith announced a policy change. Now, the school decides prom attendance for suspended students on a "case-by-case" basis. In Tate's case, he can go."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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