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Al Angello
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If there's 1,000,000,000 people in China, and 1,000,000,000 people in India I suppose that I would have to share my small townhouse with a lot of others.
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critter
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 20:38, Al Angello wrote:
If there's 1,000,000,000 people in China, and 1,000,000,000 people in India I suppose that I would have to share my small townhouse with a lot of others.


Sounds like my first apartment.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 19:00, critter wrote:
More honest (and/or stereotypical) travel slogans:
Southeast Asia: "Nice weather when it's not hurricaning!"
Australia: "Some like it hot. Really hot. And filled with deadly animals."
Canada: "Welcome! (As long as you're white, rich, and support feminism.) Eh."
Afghanistan: "Duck!"
Cambodia: "Duck! No, not there!"
Tibet: "Duck! Rama lama ding dong."
America: "If you ain't with us, you're agin' us!"
Ireland: "If you ain't with us, have a Guinness!"
Scotland: "Guhnuhhnuhnfrnaakh. Ha! Aaa's roit! Wanna' foit abait et?"
England: "No smiling."
Norway: "Have some fish. And a sweater."


Sad as it is, I honestly don't get the parentheses in the canada one.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 20:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
A million new legal permanent residents per year, and the line keeps backing up...

With all due respect, 0.3% of the US population doesn't seem like a whole lot to me.
critter
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Tacos rock.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 21:47, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 20:26, LobowolfXXX wrote:
A million new legal permanent residents per year, and the line keeps backing up...

With all due respect, 0.3% of the US population doesn't seem like a whole lot to me.


If what we're discussing is the desirability of the United States to people of other nations, expressing it as a percentage of the US population doesn't seem particularly relevant to me. I could see it as relevant if the question was, "What's the appropriate number of new legal permanent residents to permit annually?"
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
landmark
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Just anticipating.
LobowolfXXX
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Just seems like kind of an arbitrary way to argue that the USA doesn't allow enough new permanent residents. But I suppose the raw numbers are arbitrary, too. When viewed in terms of population (as was done a while back in another thread), the USA doesn't look particularly welcoming as compared to Canada; on the other hand, when viewed in terms of population density (another way the numbers could be filtered), the opposite could be argued.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
jdmagic357
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I think anyone wanting residency in America should be allowed, so long as they signed a waver to all social services for them and there families, for at least 10 generations. That would put the issue of "welfare drain" to rest once and for all.

For now, the fact that we invite people of other nations here to do our work, then expect them to just go home when were done using them, seems to me a little unfair. Having said that, it seems that other countries make it extremely difficult to join the citizenry. Why not just adopt the same sort of requirements?
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:35, jdmagic357 wrote:
For now, the fact that we invite people of other nations here to do our work, then expect them to just go home when were done using them, seems to me a little unfair.


Of course, we pay them, too.

Anticipated response: Their pay is a mere pittance.

Rebuttal: It's enough that they go far out of their way to take the deal.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tommy
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I heard that the USA has four hundred thousand foreign troops there now.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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EsnRedshirt
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If everybody moved to the US, we'd have:
A) a massive housing shortage (but at least it would shore up housing prices)
B) a big problem with traffic jams due to having really poor public transportation
C) a lot of overflowing sewage lines
D) a lot of brown outs due to a poorly maintained and insufficient power grid
E) a whole bunch of fantastic and empty beaches, forests, and mountain ranges to camp on in South America, Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world.
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jdmagic357
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:35, jdmagic357 wrote:
For now, the fact that we invite people of other nations here to do our work, then expect them to just go home when were done using them, seems to me a little unfair.


Of course, we pay them, too.

Anticipated response: Their pay is a mere pittance.

Rebuttal: It's enough that they go far out of their way to take the deal.


The more pertinent part of my post, was the exploitation of foreign workers. When we abuse others, we should expect some backlash. Most people won't just sit and take it. That is if they have any courage.

Personally, if I was invited to work say in Canada, and was somehow enamored with the country, and sought to stay, I would think that after some time, I might be afforded that opportunity? If not, it might make me a little mad. Maybe even mad enough to stay illegally? I don't know, I'm just speculating?
Just cause they say it, doesn't make it true.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-12 08:06, jdmagic357 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:35, jdmagic357 wrote:
For now, the fact that we invite people of other nations here to do our work, then expect them to just go home when were done using them, seems to me a little unfair.


Of course, we pay them, too.

Anticipated response: Their pay is a mere pittance.

Rebuttal: It's enough that they go far out of their way to take the deal.


The more pertinent part of my post, was the exploitation of foreign workers. When we abuse others, we should expect some backlash. Most people won't just sit and take it. That is if they have any courage.

Personally, if I was invited to work say in Canada, and was somehow enamored with the country, and sought to stay, I would think that after some time, I might be afforded that opportunity? If not, it might make me a little mad. Maybe even mad enough to stay illegally? I don't know, I'm just speculating?


I'm sorry, that made me giggle 'I'm so mad at canada, I'm gonna just STAY there. That'll teach 'em.'
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-05-12 08:06, jdmagic357 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:35, jdmagic357 wrote:
For now, the fact that we invite people of other nations here to do our work, then expect them to just go home when were done using them, seems to me a little unfair.


Of course, we pay them, too.

Anticipated response: Their pay is a mere pittance.

Rebuttal: It's enough that they go far out of their way to take the deal.


The more pertinent part of my post, was the exploitation of foreign workers. When we abuse others, we should expect some backlash. Most people won't just sit and take it. That is if they have any courage.

Personally, if I was invited to work say in Canada, and was somehow enamored with the country, and sought to stay, I would think that after some time, I might be afforded that opportunity? If not, it might make me a little mad. Maybe even mad enough to stay illegally? I don't know, I'm just speculating?


Personally, I think that if economic opportunities were so bad here that I were willing to uproot myself and travel hundreds of miles to work in Canada, I might be glad that I had the opportunity, even if it were only temporary. But I, too, am just speculating.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
gdw
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Quote:
On 2011-05-12 09:40, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-12 08:06, jdmagic357 wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:45, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 23:35, jdmagic357 wrote:
For now, the fact that we invite people of other nations here to do our work, then expect them to just go home when were done using them, seems to me a little unfair.


Of course, we pay them, too.

Anticipated response: Their pay is a mere pittance.

Rebuttal: It's enough that they go far out of their way to take the deal.


The more pertinent part of my post, was the exploitation of foreign workers. When we abuse others, we should expect some backlash. Most people won't just sit and take it. That is if they have any courage.

Personally, if I was invited to work say in Canada, and was somehow enamored with the country, and sought to stay, I would think that after some time, I might be afforded that opportunity? If not, it might make me a little mad. Maybe even mad enough to stay illegally? I don't know, I'm just speculating?


Personally, I think that if economic opportunities were so bad here that I were willing to uproot myself and travel hundreds of miles to work in Canada, I might be glad that I had the opportunity, even if it were only temporary. But I, too, am just speculating.


That's the way plenty look to america, but opportunity to do so "legally" is just as sparse, often more so, than the economic opportunities in their own countries.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-11 20:25, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 16:08, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-11 14:18, Woland wrote:
There are places in the world that many a sane person would flee, and there are places in the world that are very attractive.

Why do so many people want to live in the United States? What makes this the land of opportunity?

Why do even more prefer to go elsewhere, given the opportunity? E.g.:

http://www.rikvin.com/press-releases/sin......-survey/


As the article you cited points out, more people DON'T want to go to Singapore("the United States...was still the preferred destination among workers...") However, the PRESS RELEASE FROM A SINGAPORE-BASED BUSINESS SETUP COMPANY frames the list on a percentage basis, making it essentially impossible for the USA to finish ahead of Singapore. If fifty times as many people wanted to come to the USA as Singapore, we'd still rank behind them.

In that case let us not forget to note that the survey was conducted by Gallup, a U.S. firm. Smile

Anyway, my main point was that more actually want to move someplace else. That still appears to be the case. See this, for instance:

http://www.ocscglobal.com/index.php?task=fullart&PID=61

About 165 million would like to move to the U.S. But more (200 million) would prefer to go to Canada, Britain, France (all three with around 45 million potential migrants); Spain (35 million) and Saudi Arabia (30 million). Note that those five countries have a total population now of 230 million, versus the approximate 310 million population of the U.S.

It's a complicated subject, I know, and there are many ways to compare the numbers. I won't claim to know what the best way to do that is.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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I agree, and I don't think anyone would dispute, that it is not the case that more people want to live in the USA than in every other country in the world combined. Clearly, though, from these data, the USA is by far the preferred choice of destination countries - ahead of numbers 2-4 combined. Again, if the question is desirability of a destination country, what insight does the existing population of the destination country have to do with it? The only reason to include such data is to somehow give the illusion that the desirability of a destination country with a large population is somehow less than it is. In fact, if annoying, the reverse is true; one reason for the existing population disparities is that among the comparison group, the USA has LONG been the preferred destination country.

To put it another way, let's say we had a country called Magicville, with a population of 5 people. And two person wanted to move to Magicville from another country, while a hundred million people wanted to move to the USA. The issue isn't the data (Gallup's fine with me). If Gallup says the numbers are 2 and 100,000,000, ok. The issue is the suggestion that the data support the idea that more people want to move to Magicville (40% population increase) than the USA (33% population increase).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2011-05-12 10:32, balducci wrote:



Anyway, my main point was that more actually want to move someplace else. That still appears to be the case. See this, for instance:

http://www.ocscglobal.com/index.php?task=fullart&PID=61

About 165 million would like to move to the U.S. But more (200 million) would prefer to go to Canada, Britain, France (all three with around 45 million potential migrants); Spain (35 million) and Saudi Arabia (30 million). Note that those five countries have a total population now of 230 million, versus the approximate 310 million population of the U.S.


What "someplace" (singular) is that?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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Quote:
On 2011-05-12 10:50, LobowolfXXX wrote:

Again, if the question is desirability of a destination country, what insight does the existing population of the destination country have to do with it? The only reason to include such data is to somehow give the illusion that the desirability of a destination country with a large population is somehow less than it is.

If you have two objectively equally desirable nations attracting immigrants, but there are many more people living in one than the other, that could affect the number of people who ultimately go there. For reasons of family ties if nothing else.

Of course, I do not know how we could properly account for this. But it should not be ignored.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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