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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Marlo a Thief (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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RS1963
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Everyone of us is a legend in his own mind;)
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2011-05-22 20:20, Vincero wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-22 11:23, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-05-22 04:09, Vincero wrote:
I noticed. I didn't want to call him on it though. We all know what he meant.


Yup, mean, base, crude and impertinent.
And MPD or no - what do you mean by "we"?


Sorry, what's MPD?

MPD "Multiple Personality Disorder" perhaps?

Cardamagically,
DOM Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
MagicT
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Hi Dom.



Trini
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Slide
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I get that you and X are huge fans of Marlo. As it happens, so am I. What I don't get is this bullying desire to make people conform to your romantic view or shut up.

I certainly didn't see it as bullying, just expressing my opinion.

Here is my issue:

1. This is a public forum. There are kids as well as adults on this forum many of which are coming to magic for the first time. They read a thread called "Marlo is a Thief", and perhaps they believe it. Perhaps they dismiss Marlo for that reason. At any rate, it takes someone who they should be admiring and throws him under the bus, without an opportunity to defend himself. There are lots of ways this kind of thing can be handled: the author of the original post could do what many have done: reach out to the people who knew him, interview them, write a paper or create a lecture and present their data. Speculation, opening the topic in an open public forum, and stating it as fact, "Marlo a thief" is not what I think Marlo deserves. Should we have titles such as "Vernon a child abductor"? Where does it cross the line in a public forum.

2. On the matter of credit, since there is no money involved such as royalties, then credit is a matter of bragging rights to a very small group of people. In this day and age, re-assigning credit should be a very easy thing to do: contact Giobbi and have him update Card College, put up a web site and say you were the one who created the move, The magic community is so small that getting the proper accreditation seems like a fairly simple matter to get out there.
3. the rest just comes off as professional jealousy and comes off in mind as demeaning to both the poster and the person he is posting about.

But listen, if you think this is the treatment Marlo deserves for his years of dedication to the art and his body of work, feel free. Drag his name through the mud, ruin his reputation. But if you think a strong reaction to the tearing down of Marlo is bullying, well... we'll just have to disagree on that.
R.E. Byrnes
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Should we have titles such as "Vernon a child abductor"?

No, because it's not something that a substantial number of well-informed people-- or anyone at all -- believe to be true.

And the rest of your post, with all its puffery about "the art and body of work" and "this day and age," doesn't remedy that aggressively obtuse analogy. a thread titled "Marlo wasn't a thief" would make the counter-point far better than some imagined lecture or paper or "reaching our," whatever that means.
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2011-05-23 13:59, MagicT wrote:
Hi Dom.



Trini
Hi Trini...

Cardamagically,
DOM Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
Slide
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No, because it's not something that a substantial number of well-informed people-- or anyone at all -- believe to be true.

Persi Diaconis's parents might disagree.
bblumen
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Quote:
On 2011-05-23 14:57, R.E. Byrnes wrote:
[quote
Should we have titles such as "Vernon a child abductor"?

No, because it's not something that a substantial number of well-informed people-- or anyone at all -- believe to be true. [snip]
[/quote]
While BillMcCloskey makes a good point above, perhaps a better analogy would have been, "Should we have titles such as Vernon guilty of child neglect/abuse?"

A "substantial number of well-informed people" would likely agree with that characterization.
"Lulling the minds of your company is more important than dazzling their eyes." Ed Marlo
Artie Fufkin
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Yeah, the Vernon/child abductor line was a bad example.

Anybody that thinks the Vernon/Diaconis thing was anything but weird needs to give their head a shake.........Diaconis was 14.
Slide
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"Anybody that thinks the Vernon/Diaconis thing was anything but weird needs to give their head a shake.........Diaconis was 14."

Again, I think his parents might have thought differently. 81% of all abductions are with children ages 12-17. And if some guy took my 14 year old son on a road trip without my knowledge, plied him on alcohol and humiliated him on a daily basis, that guy would be behind bars.
Justin W
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Did his parents think that, or is this just conjecture to support a shaky comparison?

Either way, I'm not sure why an Almost Famous-type film hasn't been made about it yet. Robert Redford would make a superb young Diaconis, with Jude Law as the firm but yielding taskmaster Vernon.

Larry Jennings will of course play himself.
Opine Traveler
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Quote:
On 2011-05-23 14:12, BillMcCloskey wrote:

This is a public forum. There are kids as well as adults on this forum many of which are coming to magic for the first time. They read a thread called "Marlo is a Thief", and perhaps they believe it. Perhaps they dismiss Marlo for that reason. At any rate, it takes someone who they should be admiring and throws him under the bus, without an opportunity to defend himself. There are lots of ways this kind of thing can be handled: the author of the original post could do what many have done: reach out to the people who knew him, interview them, write a paper or create a lecture and present their data. Speculation, opening the topic in an open public forum, and stating it as fact "marlo a thief" is not what I think Marlo deserves. Should we have titles such as "Vernon a child abductor" ? Where does it cross the line in a public forum.


Hi, Bill,

It may be worth keeping in mind that the author of the original post is as well read as anyone on Marlo and probably better so, and that he was trolling for responses and inciting invective. What's more, he was openly doing so, since many of us know him and his deep affection for Marlo material. The fact that at certain times the topic was being taken seriously and actually generating a few worthwhile comments was in spite of the original post, not because of it.

And, some people might see your instruction for everyone in this entire thread except Mr. Powers to "shut the f up" as bullying and not simply expressing a personal opinion.

So now, when you write this...

Quote:
Again, I think his parents might have thought differently. 81% of all abductions are with children ages 12-17. And if some guy took my 14 year old son on a road trip without my knowledge, plied him on alcohol and humiliated him on a daily basis, that guy would be behind bars.


...do I see a bit of hypocrisy here? Persi has spoken so little about his childhood that we don't know what the circumstances were, we don't know what Persi's relationship with his family was, or even if his parents were alive then, or if they were, whether they acceded to his wish to travel with Vernon...or perhaps he ran away and they never knew what happened to him until much later, if ever. Or perhaps he was already on his own and had been for some time. We simply don't know. What we do know is that Vernon's contribution to magic was as seminal and significant as Marlo's, so for you to say, "Again, I think his parents might have thought differently. 81% of all abductions are with children ages 12-17. And if some guy took my 14 year old son on a road trip without my knowledge, plied him on alcohol and humiliated him on a daily basis, that guy would be behind bars" nearly begs the rest of us to respond to you by paraphrasing your own words:

If you think this is the treatment Vernon deserves for his years of dedication to the art and his body of work, feel free. Drag his name through the mud, ruin his reputation.

Just don't be surprised if some of us vehemently disagree with you.

After all, this is a public forum. There are kids as well as adults on this forum many of which are coming to magic for the first time. They read a thread casting suspicion on Vernon's behavior with Persi, and perhaps they believe it. Perhaps they dismiss Vernon for that reason. At any rate, it takes someone who they should be admiring and throws him under the bus, without an opportunity to defend himself.

So again, before telling other people to censure themselves...
R.E. Byrnes
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So now the person who tried to demonstrate the damage of this thread's title by using the example of another, hypothetical thread title, expressly about Vernon and implicitly about someone else, has accomplished precisely what he claims to oppose, and as to not just one additional person, but two. perhaps he should take it upon himself to inform everyone as to the precise, objective truth around Vernon and Diaconis, having broached the topic, and being so obviously knowledgeable and connected. or is the real purpose here to make only cryptic asides that establish insider status in the not-so-exalted field of magic?
Opine Traveler
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Vernon discussed on the Revelations videos that on one of his trips to search out gamblers and materials, he let Persi accompany him. My recollection was that Persi was 12 at the time, although it may have been 14 as stated above. I'm not aware of Persi ever publicly going into great detail about it, so as far as I know, we have no knowledge of how the two came to know each other. We can be fairly certain of one thing: In order for Vernon to have had an interest in Persi and been willing to have him on a trip, Persi must have shown great promise with sleight of hand at even such an early age, and I believe I remember learning at one point that even at that age, Persi was being taught by grifters and gamblers in his area. Given this, we can assume that his family life, whatever it was, probably wasn't normal and that it might not have raised any eyebrows for him to have accompanied Vernon on a trip -- or, for that matter, anyone else.
Justin W
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I think Bill's got the right idea. I'm gonna start a thread called "Brad Christian a Serial Killer?" That'll steer beginners in the right direction.
Opine Traveler
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Just found something of a biography here:

http://scidiv.bellevuecollege.edu/math/Diaconis.html

Which has certain elements contradicting those found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persi_Diaconis
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Adam1975
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And..........the thread was locked
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
bblumen
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Quote:
On 2011-05-23 16:32, R.E. Byrnes wrote:
So now the person who tried to demonstrate the damage of this thread's title by using the example of another, hypothetical thread title, expressly about Vernon and implicitly about someone else, has accomplished precisely what he claims to oppose, and as to not just one additional person, but two. perhaps he should take it upon himself to inform everyone as to the precise, objective truth around Vernon and Diaconis, having broached the topic, and being so obviously knowledgeable and connected. or is the real purpose here to make only cryptic asides that establish insider status in the not-so-exalted field of magic?

"but two"...by that comment I suppose you refer to my post.

Why not answer my question to you?
"Lulling the minds of your company is more important than dazzling their eyes." Ed Marlo
Jonathan Townsend
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Has the topic changed to a short attention span theater production of "Marlo or Vernon- best troll ever?" ?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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